Before Makers' Mark, it was not OK for bourbon to taste good!

[cowdery]

Old Forester uses different profiles for its 'Signature' 100 proof and standard 86 proof expressions. The 86 isn't just the 100 with more water. I suspect this is also true of the Wellers, though that is by no means assured. The easiest way to make a product at multiple proofs is to start with the highest, bottle that, add a little more water, bottle the next one, and so on.

Another factor, not applicable in either of these cases but applicable to Very Old Barton, for example, is that if the 100 proof is a bond, then it must be all from one season, whereas with every other proof point they can mix in older whiskey and even whiskey from other distilleries.

[Josh]

I know that they are the same thing, just that one is cut to 90 proof prior to bottling. However, I thought that there were other variables that don't make it EXACTLY the same if you buy a higher proof bottling and cut it yourself.

Indeed. Barrel selection plays a role, plus OWA is now NAS, whereas WSR is 7 y/o.

[Gillman]

Heineken is an interesting case. I was mystified 30 years ago that so many people drank it when as often as not the bottles (in North America) seemed affected clearly by light. Not only, in my opinion, was it often not that beer-like, it was inferior to beers people could pay much less for. Status and mass marketing clearly played a role. Yet, for some 20 years at least, Heineken now is far better in quality due to faster shipping and other factors. But it is still a big seller! While this would suggest the enduring power of mass suggestion, I think other factors are at play, not exclusively, but they play a role. And they are linked to the fact that the majority of people who drink beer apparently don't like the taste. I read this not long ago and wish I could find the reference. Thus, it may be that the fresh product is to these people no better than the unfresh, they don't like beer in general regardless of its condition. So beer may be a special case in part at least. I won't of course deny the power of mass advertising although I still believe at bottom most large-selling products offer a certain basic quality. And consistency is as important to many as inherent quality - more so in some cases.

Gary

[CorvallisCracker]

I know that they are the same thing, just that one is cut to 90 proof prior to bottling. However, I thought that there were other variables that don't make it EXACTLY the same if you buy a higher proof bottling and cut it yourself.

There might be. They may come from different parts of the warehouse. Only BT knows for sure.

[MrAtomic]

The first whiskey -- actually, the first liquor -- I enjoyed drinking was Maker's Mark. It taught me that whiskey was more than a prop for wanna-be tough guys like Slash and David Lee Roth (I'm dating myself here). If for no other reason, I'll always have a soft spot for Maker's, even if I don't buy it outside of bars anymore.

That said, I was recently reminded of the power of Maker's Mark-eting. A colleague did me a favor, and knowing that he likes Maker's, I thanked him with a bottle of Weller 12. It's a personal favorite and impossible to find locally, so it was a meaningful gift in my mind. But the recipient was unimpressed. I told him Weller was similar to Maker's, and he thanked me and then said he'd pass it on to his bourbon-drinking girlfriend.

His reaction didn't offend me (it's not my business, after all), but it sure made an impression. This is a smart, generally open-minded, friendly guy but he was totally uninterested in the Weller. He drinks Maker's. Period. I didn't say another word about the Weller, as I suddenly felt like I was insulting his taste. Hopefully his girlfriend enjoys it.

Back on topic, I'll definitely try this new version of Maker's, but by the glass, not the bottle.

[callmeox]

There might be. They may come from different parts of the warehouse. Only BT knows for sure.

We went through this ad nauseum when OWA went NAS while you were on your hiatus from SB.

OWA and WSR are sourced from the same barrel dump. A fraction of the juice is sent to be cut to proof for OWA and the remainder is cut to proof for WSR.

This info came straight from BT when I was there last fall. It was to answer a question about OWA going NAS and was followed with "if WSR loses its age statement, then worry."

[CorvallisCracker]

We went through this ad nauseum when OWA went NAS while you were on your hiatus from SB.

I was still reading. Just not posting.

I just don't remember the thread.

OWA and WSR are sourced from the same barrel dump. A fraction of the juice is sent to be cut to proof for OWA and the remainder is cut to proof for WSR.

This info came straight from BT when I was there last fall. It was to answer a question about OWA going NAS and was followed with "if WSR loses its age statement, then worry."

Thank you for the information!

[Gillman]

So many interesting ideas and directions here. I always find it interesting when people aren't interested to try something different. Maybe it depends on the product. Recently in a commercial-oriented bar in Toronto I commented that no craft beer was available. The server (in no way showing annoyance, but more wondrously) said it was the first time in 10 years she had heard anyone comment on brand availability or quality. I said, what if you don't have what they ask for? She said, I will suggest something else, and they always say OK. This suggests beer is a generic category to these buyers. Clearly one's whiskey is viewed differently by many (although it didn't used to be anywhere in fact, branding occurred much later).

If someone offers me a different brand of cookies than I usually buy, I'll try them, and wouldn't take offence regardless of cost. I'll try anything once.

Gary

[Gillman]

By the way, about 2 months after visiting that bar (re the beer choice) I went back. I completely forgot about that palaver on brand choice in the bar. But the same server came over and remembered, and said, "now we have thus and such brand", a kind of faux-micro brand made by one of the big brewers but still pretty good. I was surprised she remembered! This shows that consumer reaction albeit in a small way can make a difference.

Gary

[Inthewater]

I am lost in this discussion at this point, but did I hear someone mention somewhere that they think most beer drinkers don't like the taste of beer?

Well, that is a bit dated info, I think. Lots of fans of craft beers these days. Very similar issue to the one we are discussing, though I won't agree that MM : ORVW as Budweiser : Sierra Nevada (or insert favorite craft brewer). More like Sierra Nevada to Court Ave Brewing Company (small local brew pub) in my home town.

Both are good products and high quality, one just goes for an even smaller percentage of an already small slice of the consumer pie.

Gonna have a glass of MM tonight just in honor of this thread, and enjoy it.