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  1. #1
    Bourbonian of the Year 2004 and Guru
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    They are always doing something stupid...

    Colonel Bettye Jo Boone
    Industrial Maintenance
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    Heaven Hill Distilleries
    Bardstown, Kentucky

  2. #2
    Irreverent One
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    Re: They are always doing something stupid...

    Is this the accursed HR 5034?
    Scott

    "Remember that your sense of humor is inversely proportional to your level of intolerance."
    - Serge Storms

  3. #3
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    Re: They are always doing something stupid...

    I'm assuming without reading this bill (dangerous, I know) that the effect on distillers is not intended and that it should/could be cleaned up a bit.

    I'm assuming (again) that it has more to do with states prohibiting their residents from buying beer and wine directly from out-of-state wineries and brewers. Don't tell anyone, but I had to open a UPS Store mailbox in another state to order wine directly from some of our favorite wineries. If the bill allows someone in a state like mine to order wine or beer directly from an out-of-state producer then I'm for it. If that's not the effect, then I have no opinion without further study.

  4. #4
    Irreverent One
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    Re: They are always doing something stupid...

    Quote Originally Posted by dean_martin View Post
    If the bill allows someone in a state like mine to order wine or beer directly from an out-of-state producer then I'm for it.
    No, I think it's just the opposite.

    The reason I think it's HR 5034 is because that bill is supposedly an accommodating response to the "letter from 38 state attorneys general", which is referenced in both this article about HR 5034 and in the article to which Bettye Jo linked.

    Although the concept of giving the states greater regulatory power may appeal to ideologues, in this case it's nothing more than a gambit by the alcoholic beverage distributors and their congressional lackeys.
    Scott

    "Remember that your sense of humor is inversely proportional to your level of intolerance."
    - Serge Storms

  5. #5
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    Re: They are always doing something stupid...

    Quote Originally Posted by CorvallisCracker View Post
    No, I think it's just the opposite.

    The reason I think it's HR 5034 is because that bill is supposedly an accommodating response to the "letter from 38 state attorneys general", which is referenced in both this article about HR 5034 and in the article to which Bettye Jo linked.

    Although the concept of giving the states greater regulatory power may appeal to ideologues, in this case it's nothing more than a gambit by the alcoholic beverage distributors and their congressional lackeys.
    Ok, I got ya. This thing doesn't do a damn thing for consumer choice then and keeping my out-of-state mailbox will be a waste of money. I guess it's a reaction to rather than a codification of the 2005 Supreme Court ruling that struck down Mich and NY laws restricting direct shipping from out-of-state wineries and the "without justification" language would probably make it easier for states to justify such restrictions, e.g., can't regulate sales to minors, collect taxes, etc.

    I have a hard enough time getting good American craft beer as it is. We've made strides on the law in my state, but still have a ways to go. And in my closest neighboring state which doesn't have such draconian laws, it seems like the distributors (who distance themselves from consumers) have more control over what's available than the retailers.

  6. #6
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    Re: They are always doing something stupid...

    seems like the distributors (who distance themselves from consumers) have more control over what's available than the retailers.
    Exactly, this is all about the distributors, especially the beer distributors, further strengthening their position at the expense of the consumer.
    ~Robert BTOTY #2 2009

    GBS Member - 2011 Indoctrination

  7. #7
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    Re: They are always doing something stupid...

    Scott's got it right -- this is an anti-consumer-choice bill for the benefit of the MA distribution cabal (I get my *legal* shipments sent to a friend in next-door NH). Interesting KY/TN take on it, though -- I agree that regulating the product itself probably wasn't the intent.
    Kevin

    "Clears up her head with bourbon/Cause beer is so suburban/And declasse for what it's worth"

  8. #8
    Irreverent One
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    Re: They are always doing something stupid...

    Quote Originally Posted by StraightBoston View Post
    Scott's got it right -- this is an anti-consumer-choice bill for the benefit of the MA distribution cabal (I get my *legal* shipments sent to a friend in next-door NH). Interesting KY/TN take on it, though -- I agree that regulating the product itself probably wasn't the intent.
    No, probably not, but if this is true:

    The bill also includes an amendment to the Act of 1890, otherwise known as the Wilson Act. The Wilson Act states "that all fermented, distilled or other intoxicating liquors or liquids transported into any state or territory" are subject to the same rules as alcohol produced within the state. The proposed bill calls for maintaining the states' control over alcohol shipped in, but no longer requires the state to treat it the same as alcohol produced within the state.
    then it might be possible for a state to allow one of its distilleries to label something "bourbon" which does not conform to the federal definition.

    It's a case of "collateral damage", something you often get with badly written laws. Which this one is.
    Scott

    "Remember that your sense of humor is inversely proportional to your level of intolerance."
    - Serge Storms

  9. #9
    Bourbonian of the Year 2002 and Guru
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    Re: They are always doing something stupid...

    It is HR 5034, aka the Wholesaler Monopoly Protection Act. The unintended consequencs are potentially disasterous because they are unintended. The place to start is that this law benefits no one except distributors.

    The 21st Amendment to the Constitution has three short sections. This is section two (emphasis mine).

    Section 2. The transportation or importation into any State, Territory, or possession of the United States for delivery or use therein of intoxicating liquors, in violation of the laws thereof, is hereby prohibited.

    This statement creates an exception to the Commerce Clause of the Constitution (Article I, Section 8, Clause 3), which normally requires a national market and allows the federal government to appropriate for itself virtually any type of product or service regulation that it believes should be standardized across the whole United States. The 21st Amendment explicitly says that right stays with the states. HR 5034 aims to reinforce that authority. Many people say it's simply unnecessary--the 21st Amendment itself is all you need--and many others say it could cause a lot of mischief for no benefit to anyone except the entrenched self-interest of the distributors.

    Producers are against it mainly because they favor going in the other direction, restoring the normal working of the Commerce Clause and breaking up the three-tier system so they can sell directly to national chain retailers like Wal-Mart.
    Last edited by cowdery; 05-25-2010 at 13:41.

  10. #10
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    Re: They are always doing something stupid...

    It is very important that this bill fails.
    Should we write and/or call our House Reps and/or Senators?
    ovh

 

 

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