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  1. #21
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    Re: Corn Based Beer?

    I never though I would be defending Texas legislature online, but...

    According to this website, in Noah Webster's 1828 dictionary, liquor is defined as:

    "A liquid or fluid substance. [See Liquid.] Liquor is a word of general signification, extending to water, milk, blood, say, juice, &c.; but its most common application is to spirituous fluids, whether distilled or fermented, to decoctions, solutions, tinctures."

    If any dictionary can be considered definitive, the Oxford English Dictionary is it. This is from the OED online, definition 3b.

    "Liquid for drinking; beverage, drink. Now almost exclusively spec., a drink produced by fermentation or distillation. malt liquor, liquor brewed from malt; ale, beer, porter, etc. spirituous liquor, liquor produced by distillation; spirits. vinous liquor, liquor made from grapes; wine."

    I agree that the ale thing is a very odd, if that is the Texas legislature's definition of an ale. But malt liquor seems to be a perfectly valid term that one could, if one wanted, use to refer to any grain-based alcoholic beverage.
    Last edited by Josh; 12-06-2010 at 13:17.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Corn Based Beer?

    I'm down with the OED, and so I guess I'm just wrong.

    But come on, let's quit splitting hairs here; I still say you won't find a 'liquor store' that doesn't sell distilled spirits. Who here wouldn't be surprised walking into 'Tom's Liquors' only to find beer and wine, or only water and milk for that matter?

    Seriously.
    Last edited by Grain Brain; 12-06-2010 at 13:39.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Corn Based Beer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grain Brain View Post
    I'm down with the OED, and so I guess I'm just wrong.

    I still say you won't find a 'liquor store' that doesn't sell distilled spirits though.

    But come on, let's quit splitting hairs here; who here wouldn't be surprised walking into 'Tom's Liquors' only to find beer and wine?

    Seriously.
    I certainly would.

    We do have liquor-less liquor stores in Michigan, though. They're usually called Party Stores. And if you don't see the word "liquor" on the outside, you ain't leavin' there with anything but lottery tickets, a case of Milwaukee's Best and a sack of chili cheese fritos.
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  4. #24
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    Re: Corn Based Beer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grain Brain View Post
    I still say you won't find a 'liquor store' that doesn't sell distilled spirits though.
    That's the way it is here in MI.
    If the sign says "Liquor" then they have spirits.

    Not to be confused with bars that have liquor in the front and poker in the rear.
    ovh

  5. #25
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    Re: Corn Based Beer?

    Just to put a further spin, I met a man recently who used to be a distiller for rum and whisky distilleries. He would say to me, the mass market will never get a taste for "liquor", by this he meant brown spirits especially traditional ones made in a pot still or with that character. Gin and especially vodka was not liquor.

    Gary

  6. #26
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    Re: Corn Based Beer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grain Brain View Post
    I'm down with the OED, and so I guess I'm just wrong.

    But come on, let's quit splitting hairs here; I still say you won't find a 'liquor store' that doesn't sell distilled spirits. Who here wouldn't be surprised walking into 'Tom's Liquors' only to find beer and wine, or only water and milk for that matter?

    Seriously.
    Where do you get that for the definition of 'liquor' to include wine and beer, one has to identify a 'liquor store' that sells only wine and beer? In rhetoric, that's called a red herring.

    What you got wrong is that the word 'liquor' as applied to alcoholic beverages, has long meant all alcoholic beverages, including distilled spirits but not distilled spirits exclusively, which is what you asserted. Granted, you are hardly alone in assuming this and are very likely in the majority. And, as I said, the definition of words does change through usage and some, especially online dictionaries, now favor the 'new' definition of liquor, though many older and ostensibly definitive sources do not.

    I'm old and came up in the liquor business a long time ago when the 'liquor business' meant the business of selling any alcoholic beverages.

  7. #27
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    Re: Corn Based Beer?

    Speaking of definitions (and contributing to thread drift), I had a guy come into the distillery the other day and say "I have been to a lot of breweries but have never been somewhere that makes booze." He made another comment later saying he was more of a beer drinker, but liked some "booze."

    In my world "booze" is any alcohol, but to him, it only applied to distilled spirits.

    What say you all.
    Hope is subversive, for it limits the grandiose pretensions of the present by calling into existence the possibility of something better.

  8. #28
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    Re: Corn Based Beer?

    Quote Originally Posted by kickert View Post
    Speaking of definitions (and contributing to thread drift), I had a guy come into the distillery the other day and say "I have been to a lot of breweries but have never been somewhere that makes booze." He made another comment later saying he was more of a beer drinker, but liked some "booze."

    In my world "booze" is any alcohol, but to him, it only applied to distilled spirits.

    What say you all.
    Booze and liquor are very similar in that respect, in that people tend to personalize the meaning. 'Booze' has the additional aspect of being slang. I say 'booze,' like liquor, means any alcoholic beverage.

    And not to get under Grain Brain's skin again, but when people are corrected about mistaken beliefs about booze, they get offended and defensive more so than on other subjects.

    The things people don't know about booze you could write a book about. (Publication date to be announced.)
    Last edited by cowdery; 12-07-2010 at 16:38.

  9. #29
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    Re: Corn Based Beer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    I never though I would be defending Texas legislature online, but...

    According to this website, in Noah Webster's 1828 dictionary, liquor is defined as:

    "A liquid or fluid substance. [See Liquid.] Liquor is a word of general signification, extending to water, milk, blood, say, juice, &c.; but its most common application is to spirituous fluids, whether distilled or fermented, to decoctions, solutions, tinctures."

    If any dictionary can be considered definitive, the Oxford English Dictionary is it. This is from the OED online, definition 3b.

    "Liquid for drinking; beverage, drink. Now almost exclusively spec., a drink produced by fermentation or distillation. malt liquor, liquor brewed from malt; ale, beer, porter, etc. spirituous liquor, liquor produced by distillation; spirits. vinous liquor, liquor made from grapes; wine."

    I agree that the ale thing is a very odd, if that is the Texas legislature's definition of an ale. But malt liquor seems to be a perfectly valid term that one could, if one wanted, use to refer to any grain-based alcoholic beverage.
    You can't argue with the OED.

    But having said that, let me argue with the OED:

    The use of the word liquor to mean any liquid meant for drinking is on par with the word meat meaning any food, usually solid food. Its archaic.

    It is easy to imagine the vernacular evolution of the word liquor from any liquid meant for drinking; with malt liquor, spirituous liquor and vinous liquor all describing various types of alcoholic liquors and eventualy when people began dopping those qualifiers; malt, vinous, and spirituous in their everyday speech, "liquor" in their minds began to mean strictly distilled spirits, at least in the minds of some of us, perhaps the majority of us.

    If I hear somone say, 'I smelled liquor on his breath', I assume he is talking about distilled spirits much the same way if I hear someone say, I'm gettin' full do you want the rest of this meat, I assume the person isn't talking about vegtable matter.

    Chuck, you are certainly a stickler for proper meaning when it comes to this issue. It's too bad you aren't the same way when it comes to other issues. I remember discussing the various "assault weapon" bans. I made the point that "assault weapon" has a very particular meaning; a select fire carbine, with emphases on the weapon's select fire capability. The various bans were semi-auto bans. Legislators and the public were using and continue to use the word "assault weapon" incorrectly. You didn't seem to have a problem with that. In fact, If I recall correctly, you supported that usage.

    Now, you are all up in Grain Brain's grill for doing exactly what you have done in the past; using a less proper slang/vernacular definition.
    Last edited by ILLfarmboy; 12-07-2010 at 17:43.

  10. #30
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    Re: Corn Based Beer?

    All I know is the filler of corn that many adjunct lagers use... tastes like ***.
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