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Thread: Whiskey Tree

  1. #71
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    Re: Whiskey Tree

    As always, Josh, outstanding!


    How about EH Taylor being listed under BT High Corn, and Stephen Foster under HH's Rye group?

  2. #72
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    Re: Whiskey Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by White Dog View Post
    As always, Josh, outstanding!


    How about EH Taylor being listed under BT High Corn, and Stephen Foster under HH's Rye group?
    Knew I missed something! I'll fix it this afternoon.
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  3. #73
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    Re: Whiskey Tree

    Mashbill Source: Regan & Regan, The Book of Bourbon and Other Fine American Whiskeys (London: Mixellany) 2009, unless otherwise noted. Barton, WT, and Dickel are noted as approximate.

    Brand Name (%corn/%rye or wheat/%malted barley)

    Whiskey Tree, 4.2


    Note: These tree is only a breakdown of "macro" distillers

    Barton-1792, #3 char, Independent Stave
    Barton (75/15/10)- Very Old Barton all proofs +???
    1792 (high barley?)- 1792 Ridgemont Reserve, +???
    Other Bourbons: Tom Moore BiB, Kentucky Gentleman, Kentucky Tavern, Ten High, Walker's Delluxe, other "cats & dogs".The rest, unknown
    Rye- Fleischman's Rye
    Before it was purchased by Sazerac, sold to a lot of NDPs.

    Beam, #4 char, Indepnedent Stave
    Beam Mashbill- all JB bourbons, Old Crow, Old Taylor*, Knob Creek, Baker's, Booker's
    Old Grandad Mashbill- OGD, Basil Hayden
    Rye- JB Rye, Old Overholt, Riš

    Brown-Forman, #3 char, Brown-Forman Cooperage
    Old Forester (72/18/10)- Old Forester, Woodford Reserve
    Early Times (79/11/10)
    Jack Daniels (80/8/12)
    Rye (see Heaven Hill below)- Current source of Heaven Hill's Pikeville and Rittenhouse ryes.
    Also sells to many NDPs.

    Buffalo Trace, #4 char, Independent Stave
    #1, higher corn BT White Dog, Benchmark, Buffalo Trace, Old Charter, Eagle Rare, Col. E.H. Taylor, Geo. T. Stagg
    #2, lower corn- Ancient Age*, Elmer T. Lee*, Hancock*, Blanton's*, Rock Hill Farms*, Virginia Gentleman, Bowman Bourbons
    Wheat bourbon: Everything Weller, Van Winkle Special Reserve "Lot B"*, Old Rip Van Winkle*
    Rye: Sazerac, Bowman Rye

    Diageo, char #3, Indpendent Stave
    Dickel (80/12/8)George Dickel, Cascade Hollow

    Four Roses, #3.5 char
    Has 2 mashbills and 5 yeasts.
    All Ten Combinations- Four Roses (yellow label)
    OBSK, OBSO, OESK, OESO- Four Roses Small Batch
    OBSV- Four Roses Single Barrel
    All the combinations are also available as Single Barrel, Barrel Strength retailer bottlings.

    Also sells whiskey to Diageo that goes into Bulleit (from the high rye OBS recipes) and I.W. Harper (not available in the U.S.) and produces the overseas version of McKenna. For more information, including mashbills, see Oscar's chart here.

    Heaven Hill, #3 char, Indpendent Stave
    Rye Bourbon (75/13/12)- Heaven Hill, J.T.S. Brown, T.W. Samuels, Evan Williams, Elijah Craig, Henry McKenna (U.S.), Parker's Heritage (except for 2010), et al. Also probably the source of Luxco's Ezra Brooks line and the current Yellowstone.
    Wheat Bourbon- Old Fitzgerald, Parker's Heritage 2010. Also probably the source of Luxco's Rebel Yell and Rebel Reserve.
    Wheat Whiskey- Bernheim Original
    Rye Whiskey (37/51/12, aprox.)**- Future source of Pikesville and Rittenhouse 80 & BiB, Stephen Foster, current source of Rittenhouse 21 & 23 (?)
    Corn Whiskey: Mellow Corn, JW Corn, Georgia Moon, Platte Valley*
    Also sells to many NDPs.

    LDI, ??? char, Independent Stave?
    Sells bourbon and rye for many brands including Templeton, Redemption et al, High West, W.H. Harrison, Cougar (Australia), Bulleit Rye and KBD. For a breakdown of the of corn, rye and bourbon whiskey mashbills used, see the LDI website: http://www.lawrenceburgdistillersind...om/Custom.aspx

    Maker's Mark, #3 char, Independent Stave
    Maker's Mark (70/16/14)

    Wild Turkey, #4 "the heavy char", Independent Stave
    Bourbon (75/13/12)- Wild Turkey, Russell's Reserve Bourbon
    Rye (37/51/12, aprox.)**- Wild Turkey Rye, Russell's Reserve Rye


    Brands on the market with whiskey from closed distilleries:
    Medley Rye- Older bottlings of Hirsch, post-PA Michter's(?), Black Maple Hill rye, others?
    Mix of Medley Rye and Cream of Kentucky rye (Bernheim distillery)- Van Winkle Family Reserve Rye
    Stitzel-Weller bourbon- Pappy Van Winkle (?), Jefferson's Reserve 17, 18 et al

    A few American bottlers and/or marketers have been purchasing 100% rye rye from a Canadian distillery or distilleries. It is often presumed these are from Alberta distillers in Calgary, but as of yet there is no firm evidence. So far, these are Whistle Pig and Jefferson's Rye.

    *Brand(s) not owned by the distiller.
    **Based on more current information.

    PROBLEMS/QUESTIONS: Regan & Regan list an approximate mashbill for all the bourbons made at "Ancient Age Distillery" as 80/10/10. That can't be right, but which mashbill does that represent, #1 or #2?

    Also, a mashbill of 75/20/5 is listed for Old Fitz, Weller and Rebel Yell while at Bernheim. What is the current mashbill?

    Again, if anybody sees anything screwy, don't be shy! post it here so it can be corrected.
    Last edited by Josh; 10-03-2011 at 09:20.
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  4. #74
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    Re: Whiskey Tree

    How do we know that the E H Taylor is the high corn / low rye mash bill? This is a different bourbon every year. One year it's going to made with white corn. Not trying to ruffle any feathers just asking.
    Normal is an illusion. What is normal to the spider, is chaos for the fly.

  5. #75
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    Re: Whiskey Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by p_elliott View Post
    How do we know that the E H Taylor is the high corn / low rye mash bill? This is a different bourbon every year. One year it's going to made with white corn. Not trying to ruffle any feathers just asking.
    No feathers ruffled.

    In one of the Col. E.H. Taylor threads, it is stated by Chuck and others, I believe, that the new Taylors will all be #1 b/c that's Sazerac's own mashbill and the other one, #2, is only (expect for Bowman and the White Dog #2?) used for brands owned by Age International.

    http://www.straightbourbon.com/forum...=15460&page=15
    bibamus, moriendum est
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  6. #76
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    Re: Whiskey Tree

    Speaking of ruffled feathers----

    Fighting Cock is a product of Heaven Hill and is advertised to have more rye for that extra kick- even says so on the FC website. So is FC its own mashbill or, like Buffalo Trace, does Heaven Hill have a "low rye content" and "high rye content" bourbon mashbill????
    If you have anything Michter's or Pennco and would like to sell it or share it with me, please let me know.

  7. #77
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    Re: Whiskey Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by ethangsmith View Post
    Speaking of ruffled feathers----

    Fighting Cock is a product of Heaven Hill and is advertised to have more rye for that extra kick- even says so on the FC website. So is FC its own mashbill or, like Buffalo Trace, does Heaven Hill have a "low rye content" and "high rye content" bourbon mashbill????
    That's something I've been thinking about lately myself. The Heaven Hill line seems to have more rye flavor than Evan Williams or Elijah Craig too. But nobody has ever offered any evidence that they have two mashbills.
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  8. #78
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    Re: Whiskey Tree

    I have a bottle of the Old Heaven Hill BIB and HH Old Style Bourbon in 80pf form and both seem to have a good chunk of rye in them. The OHH BIB is super peppery and when drank right next to Mellow Corn (same proof, but with no rye), you get a strong rye flavor in the OHH BIB. I agree with your thinking on Evan Williams and Elijah Craig too. There does not seem to be much rye flavor with them at all. I did a side-by-side tasting of Fighting Cock and Wild Turkey 101 bourbon and there is little difference. The heavy rye presence is the same between the two. There almost has to be at least 2 different mashbills at HH.
    If you have anything Michter's or Pennco and would like to sell it or share it with me, please let me know.

  9. #79
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    Re: Whiskey Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by ethangsmith View Post
    I have a bottle of the Old Heaven Hill BIB and HH Old Style Bourbon in 80pf form and both seem to have a good chunk of rye in them. The OHH BIB is super peppery and when drank right next to Mellow Corn (same proof, but with no rye), you get a strong rye flavor in the OHH BIB. I agree with your thinking on Evan Williams and Elijah Craig too. There does not seem to be much rye flavor with them at all. I did a side-by-side tasting of Fighting Cock and Wild Turkey 101 bourbon and there is little difference. The heavy rye presence is the same between the two. There almost has to be at least 2 different mashbills at HH.
    In the absence of any evidence that there are multiple rye bourbon mashbills, I think we have to chalk it up to barrel selection, imo the second most neglected variant in why whiskey tastes how it does. A lot of magic goes on in a barrel and it's not always quantifiable.
    Last edited by Josh; 12-18-2011 at 18:38.
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  10. #80
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    Re: Whiskey Tree

    A good point. It's amazing to see the difference proof and aging do to a product. Take for instance Pikesville rye versus Rittenhouse BIB rye. Same rye, but totally different profiles. It's just going to be really hard for me to think that Fighting Cock is just 6yo 103 proof Evan Williams. Odd.
    If you have anything Michter's or Pennco and would like to sell it or share it with me, please let me know.

 

 

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