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Thread: Whiskey Tree

  1. #221
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Swaziland, Africa

    Re: Whiskey Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by tanstaafl2 View Post
    Interesting but suggests a lack of true whiskey nerdiness was involved in the creation!
    Perhaps, but as mainstream publications go, this one is SIGNIFICANTLY better than most. There are no gross misrepresentations or complete lunacy. Perhaps not the most detailed, but it gives an accurate picture of the industry and what comes from where.
    Hope is subversive, for it limits the grandiose pretensions of the present by calling into existence the possibility of something better.

  2. #222
    Join Date
    Nov 1999

    Re: Whiskey Tree

    That tree view is fascinating - I love how some related branches wrap, and how Willett mostly has a ghost tree. But it is missing things. Just from my quick observation:

    There is no rye branch for Wild Turkey at all despite at least three expressions (WT101, WT81, RR). Edit: Russell's Reserve is also misspelled, leaving an L out of Russell.

    A lot of cats-and-dogs labels are missing, especially from Barton and Heaven Hill. This is probably due to both space consideration and lack of product awareness of those labels amongst GQ's trendy audience.

    Parker's Heritage Collection is missing from the Heaven Hill tree, but the graphic includes similar high-end offerings from Buffalo Trace and Woodford Reserve.

    The Bulleit branch of the Four Roses Tree intertwines with a branch from the George Dickel tree, when it should logically extend further over to intertwine with a rye branch of the MGPI tree for the Bulleit Rye. (The error could stand on a technicality, since Bulleit is owned by Diageo which also owns Dickel, but the graphic doesn't mention that.)

    A graphic similar to this but taking into account the breadth and scope of the list we have here would be fascinating. And probably eyestrain-inducing.
    Last edited by shoshani; 11-16-2013 at 20:07.

  3. #223
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Lexington, MA

    Re: Whiskey Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by tanstaafl2 View Post
    Interesting but suggests a lack of true whiskey nerdiness was involved in the creation! Also interesting that they show a lack of separation between BF and HH while most everything else has a line separating them where appropriate.

    Four roses ought to have ten trunks with branches growing to gether rather like a Banyan tree!
    I believe the missing line between BF and HH might be because this is a two-page magazine graphic; that center line would be formed by the magazine binding.

    Four Roses' annual releases don't make an appearance, but I'm not sure how I'd represent them on the chart.

  4. #224
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Virginia, USA

    Re: Whiskey Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    And the corrections continue to roll in, which is a good thing!


    Mashbill Source: Regan & Regan, The Book of Bourbon and Other Fine American Whiskeys (London: Mixellany) 2009, unless otherwise noted. Barton, WT, and Dickel are noted as approximate.

    Brand Name (%corn/%rye or wheat/%malted barley)

    Whiskey Tree, 5.2

    Note: These tree is only a breakdown of "macro" distillers

    Barton-1792, #3 char, Independent Stave

    Barton (75/15/10)- Very Old Barton all proofs +???
    1792 (high barley?)- 1792 Ridgemont Reserve, +???
    Other Bourbons: Tom Moore BiB, Kentucky Gentleman, Kentucky Tavern, Ten High, Walker's Delluxe, other "cats & dogs".The rest, unknown
    Rye 37/53/10? (speculation based on label of High West Double Rye!)- Fleischman's Rye
    Before it was purchased by Sazerac, sold to a lot of NDPs.

    Beam, #4 char, Independent Stave
    Beam Mashbill (76/13/10)- all JB bourbons, Old Crow, Old Taylor*, Knob Creek, Baker's, Booker's
    Old Grandad Mashbill (63/27/10)- OGD, Basil Hayden
    Rye- JB Rye, Old Overholt, Riš, Knob Creek Rye

    Brown-Forman, #3 char, Brown-Forman Cooperage
    Old Forester (72/18/10)- Old Forester, Woodford Reserve
    Early Times (79/11/10)
    Jack Daniels (80/8/12)
    Rye (see Heaven Hill below)- Current source of Heaven Hill's Pikeville and Rittenhouse ryes.
    Also sells to many NDPs.

    Buffalo Trace, #4 char, Independent Stave
    #1, higher corn BT White Dog, Benchmark, Buffalo Trace, Old Charter, Eagle Rare, Col. E.H. Taylor, Geo. T. Stagg
    #2, lower corn- Ancient Age*, Elmer T. Lee*, Hancock*, Blanton's*, Rock Hill Farms*, Virginia Gentleman/Bowman Bourbons?
    Wheat bourbon: Everything Weller, Van Winkle Special Reserve "Lot B"*, Old Rip Van Winkle*, Pappy Van Winkle 15 y/o*
    Rye: Sazerac, Bowman Rye, Van Winkle Family Reserve Rye* (?)

    Diageo, char #3, Indpendent Stave
    Dickel (80/12/8)George Dickel, Cascade Hollow

    Four Roses, #3.5 char, Independent Stave
    Has 2 mashbills and 5 yeasts.
    All Ten Combinations- Four Roses (yellow label)
    OBSK, OBSO, OESK, OESO- Four Roses Small Batch
    OBSV- Four Roses Single Barrel
    All the combinations are also available as Single Barrel, Barrel Strength retailer bottlings.

    Also sells whiskey to Diageo that goes into Bulleit (from the high rye OBS recipes) and I.W. Harper (not available in the U.S.) and produces the overseas version of McKenna. For more information, including mashbills, see Oscar's chart here.

    Heaven Hill, #3 char, Indpendent Stave
    Rye Bourbon (75/13/12)- Heaven Hill, J.T.S. Brown, T.W. Samuels, Evan Williams, Elijah Craig, Henry McKenna (U.S.), Parker's Heritage (except for 2010), etc. Also probably the source of Luxco's Ezra Brooks line and the current Yellowstone.
    Wheat Bourbon- Old Fitzgerald, Parker's Heritage 2010. Also probably the source of Luxco's Rebel Yell and Rebel Reserve.
    Wheat Whiskey- Bernheim Original
    Rye Whiskey (37/51/12, aprox.)**- Future source of Rittenhouse 80 & BiB, Stephen Foster, current source of Pikesville, Rittenhouse 21 & 23 (?)
    Corn Whiskey: Mellow Corn, JW Corn, Georgia Moon, Dixie Dew, Platte Valley*
    Also sells to many NDPs.

    LDI, ??? char, Independent Stave?
    Sells bourbon and rye for many brands including Templeton, Redemption et al, High West, W.H. Harrison, Cougar (Australia), Bulleit Rye and KBD. For a breakdown of the of corn, rye and bourbon whiskey mashbills used, see the MGP website: http://www.mgpingredients.com/product-list/

    Maker's Mark, #3 char, Independent Stave
    Maker's Mark (70/16/14)

    Wild Turkey, #4 "the heavy char", Independent Stave
    Bourbon (75/13/12)- Wild Turkey, Russell's Reserve Bourbon
    Rye (37/51/12, aprox.)**- Wild Turkey Rye, Russell's Reserve Rye

    Brands on the market with whiskey from closed distilleries:
    Medley Rye- Older bottlings of Hirsch, post-PA Michter's(?), Black Maple Hill rye, others?
    Mix of Medley Rye and Cream of Kentucky rye (Bernheim distillery)- Van Winkle Family Reserve Rye.
    Stitzel-Weller bourbon- Pappy Van Winkle (20 & 23 only?), Jefferson's Reserve 17, 18, Vintage 17 etc

    A few American bottlers and/or marketers have been purchasing 100% rye rye from a Canadian distillery or distilleries. It is often presumed these are from Alberta distillers in Calgary, but as of yet there is no firm evidence. So far, these are Whistle Pig, Jefferson's and Masterson's Rye. Jefferson's may be switching to American-made rye.

    *Brand(s) not wholly owned by the distiller.
    **Based on more current information.

    PROBLEMS/QUESTIONS/CONTROVERSIES: Regan & Regan list an approximate mashbill for all the bourbons made at "Ancient Age Distillery" as 80/10/10. That can't be right, but which mashbill does that represent, #1 or #2?

    Also, a mashbill of 75/20/5 is listed for Old Fitz, Weller and Rebel Yell while at Bernheim. What is the current mashbill?

    How much Stitzel-Weller is in Pappys 20 & 23, if any? Also how much of what is being marketed as S-W was really made at Bernheim?

    How much Medley and Cream of Kentucky Rye does VWFRR contain, and how much Buffalo Trace distillate?

    Are the Bowman bourbons really made from mashbill #2?

    Again, if anybody sees anything screwy, don't be shy! Post it here so it can be corrected.
    Time for a bump. I hate chasing this post deep in the thread!
    "There's nothing better than a fine dinner, a good bottle of whiskey and a bad girl"

  5. #225
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Punta Gorda, FL

    Re: Whiskey Tree

    Ok Thanks for the reply.. I am making a copy for my files..

  6. #226
    Advanced Taster
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Louisville, KY (Bourbon Central, USA)

    Re: Whiskey Tree

    I know it's the same source as Old Fitz, but Larceny should be added to the Heaven Hill Wheated Bourbon category, and Stagg Jr. can be added to the BT #1.

  7. #227
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Greenwood, IN

    Re: Whiskey Tree

    Also we can add David Nicholson to HH wheated bourbon.

  8. #228
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Downriver, Detroit, MI

    Re: Whiskey Tree

    Anybody know why the Jim Beam mashbill only adds up to 99%???
    Anybody think there's something else making up that last hundredth?
    ....Or, are they just rounding down from decimals on two or more of the components, and winding up short because of that?

  9. #229
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    North East MS

    Re: Whiskey Tree

    Beam doesn't officially release their Bourbon mashbill so what we have are educated guesses.
    We're Bourbon Geeks, it's who we are, it's what we do.

  10. #230
    Join Date
    Dec 2013

    Re: Whiskey Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by Richnimrod View Post
    Anybody know why the Jim Beam mashbill only adds up to 99%???
    Anybody think there's something else making up that last hundredth?
    ....Or, are they just rounding down from decimals on two or more of the components, and winding up short because of that?
    The leftover 1% is where the 'funk' goes.

    TT: Everything goes better with a little OGD114.
    squire: Amen...............



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