Sazerac Rye mashbill

[Rughi]

Is there any reason to believe that they are using more than one rye mashbill? It hadn't occurred to me that the Sazerac 18, baby Saz, and Handy might not be the same going into the barrels. It's certainly possible, but it seems odd that they would have special mashbills for such low-volume products.

Well, let's say it this way:

Sazerac company at their George T Stagg distillery in Frankfort made the current Sazerac NAS and Handy. There is every reason to believe they are the same distillate as each other.

Sazerac company is thought to have bought the Sazerac 18 from either one or two outside sources. They may not even know the mashbill(s) because they didn't make it.

[Brisko]

That's how I understand it, too.

[cowdery]

BT makes one rye mashbill. It is 51% rye, 39% corn, 10% malt, or thereabouts. That's pretty much everybody's mash bill for straight rye. The exceptions are the 'ingredient ryes' like Bulleit and WhistlePig, at 95%-100%.

Rye, wheat and barley (malt) are small grains. Rye and wheat, in bourbon parlance, are also referred to as 'flavor grains.' I've never heard anyone at a distillery use the term 'finish grain.' If you want to call malt something, call it the enzyme grain. That's what they use it for.

[ethangsmith]

That's interesting because that mashbill is almost the same as what HH is using for Rittenhouse/Pikesville and yet I find the "Baby" Sazerac to have a much stronger rye quality to it. The Rittenhouse and Pikesville, while certainly a rye whiskey, are mild, soft, and easy to sip. Almost bourbon-like. The "Baby" Sazerac I had was much drier, more bitter, and spicy. Everything a traditional rye should be. Not knocking the Rittenhouse or Pikesville and I have quite a few bottles of each in my stash. I actually prefer the easy drinking of the HH ryes over the BT ryes, but it's not to detract from the BT ryes. They too are very fine products. Just a bit too bitter for my pallet.

[tmckenzie]

each distillery produces a different taste even if it is the same mashbill. Yeast, still, water, all come into play.

[White Dog]

That's interesting because that mashbill is almost the same as what HH is using for Rittenhouse/Pikesville and yet I find the "Baby" Sazerac to have a much stronger rye quality to it. The Rittenhouse and Pikesville, while certainly a rye whiskey, are mild, soft, and easy to sip. Almost bourbon-like. The "Baby" Sazerac I had was much drier, more bitter, and spicy. Everything a traditional rye should be. Not knocking the Rittenhouse or Pikesville and I have quite a few bottles of each in my stash. I actually prefer the easy drinking of the HH ryes over the BT ryes, but it's not to detract from the BT ryes. They too are very fine products. Just a bit too bitter for my pallet.

The more I drink Ritt, the more it tastes like Bourbon to me. Not in a bad way, just not very Ryeish. It will be very interesting to taste Rye that was actually made at Bernheim, rather than B-F. It's coming soon.

[cowdery]

Don't get your hopes up. The Bernheim-made Rittenhouse won't taste much, if at all, different.

[ethangsmith]

Good, because I love my Rittenhouse and Pikesville just the way they are!

[Shell]

each distillery produces a different taste even if it is the same mashbill. Yeast, still, water, all come into play.

As well as the aging in the wood - and the craft of the master distiller.

[Brisko]

Well, let's say it this way:

Sazerac company at their George T Stagg distillery in Frankfort made the current Sazerac NAS and Handy. There is every reason to believe they are the same distillate as each other.

Sazerac company is thought to have bought the Sazerac 18 from either one or two outside sources. They may not even know the mashbill(s) because they didn't make it.

This has probably been discussed before, but what happened in the early 80's that so much rye got laid down? Who made it? How many different batches were there?

We know that VW is COK and Medley. Did Heaven Hill make the Rittenhouse 21/23/25? Where did the stock now known as Saz 18 get distilled? Besides those that are currently available, off the top of my head I can think of a few others-- Michter's 10, was it the same vintage? Hirsch? Then there are all the KBDs over the years, the Willetts, BMH, Vintage Rye, Red Hook, etc, which I suspect only amounted to a handful of barrels despite being released under so many different names.

My question is this: Out of all of those bottlings, how many of them are actually from different sources (do we even know?) Were these barrels laid down with the intention of long maturation, or was it a lucky accident for us?

I guess all I'm saying is it seems a little strange that there were/are so many ryes of similar vintage and age being sold by numerous entities, but not a single one had any more similarly aged stock in the pipeline. I mean, every last one of them has either been a very limited offering (the KBDs) or came from the same stock and was allowed to continue aging, some of which was eventually tanked.

Anyway, I'm curious to know where it all came from and how many different batches it actually represents.