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  1. #81
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    Re: Leaching of Lead into Whiskey from Ceramic Decanter Glazing

    Thanks for posting that. I guess I won't be keeping whisk(e)y in a lead crystal decanter.

  2. #82
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    Re: Leaching of Lead into Whiskey from Ceramic Decanter Glazing

    I'm surprised how fast lead is leached into solution from the decanters.

  3. #83
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    Re: Leaching of Lead into Whiskey from Ceramic Decanter Glazing

    I was a little surprised by how much lead there was in each of the media before they went into the decanters. Although I suppose I shouldn't be given how pervasive lead is in the environment.

    Also surprised at how acidic port and to a lesser extant the "synthetic" alcoholic beverage is although with a fair quantity of citric acid in it I suppose I shouldn't be.

    Curious too that they used different decanters for the port than they used for the other two media.
    That yella whiskey runnin' down my throat like honey dew vine water and I took another slash…

    Nullum Gratuitum Prandium
    Ne Illegitimi Carborundum

  4. #84
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    Re: Leaching of Lead into Whiskey from Ceramic Decater Glazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Wripvanwrinkle

    14.6 mg / L bourbon * 50 mL bourbon / dram * 1 dram / 60 dL blood = 12.2 ug/dL

    Uh-oh. The EPA says that 10.0 ug/dL is harmful, while a single dram has raised me to 12.2 ug/dL. Want a second dram?

    Fortunately, not all is lost. Sutton points out above that only 10-15% of dietary lead is absorbed in a non-pregnant adult. [7] (If you are drinking lead contaminated whiskey while pregnant, then shame on you.) Taking the 15% absorption rate into account, then each dram adds another 1.83 ug/dL to my blood supply.
    ...
    For a while now, I've been looking for a health effect chart that is measured in ug/dL. I finally found one produced by the ATSDR; California Health Department in 1993:

    Adult Reactions to Lead (micrograms per deci-liter)
    Blood Lead Level Possible Health Effects
    15 ug/dL Increase in blood pressure; harmful effects on fetus; joint and muscle aches
    25 ug/dL Reproductive problems
    40 ug/dL Kidney damage; damage to blood formation
    60 ug/dL Anemia; nerve damage; constipation; stomach pains;
    irritability and fatigue; memory and concentration problems; clumsiness;
    drowsiness and sleep problems
    80 ug/dL
    &
    above
    Blue line on gums; uncontrollable shaking of hands; wrist and
    foot drop; hallucinations; brain damage; coma; death


    Per my original estimate of 1.83 ug/dL per drink (and assuming 1 drink per day), the first set of symptoms (high blood pressure/joint an muscle pain) would appear in about 5 days. This is interesting as when I was drinking this sample every day, I was starting to feel a tightness in my chest.

    Reproductive problems would kick in after about 2 weeks. Don't stress it though, my wife and I are done having kids.

    After about a month I get a little stupider, have trouble sleeping, and am likely acting like a real pain in the ass.

    Remember (from earlier) that about half of consumed lead is purged from the body every 30 days. I'm going to cheat and assume that this cleansing happens all at once.

    In another month (after 60 total days) I'm acting like a crack head. I might slip into coma. Even worse, I might just keel over dead. I think that now is the time to put that bottle aside. It is possible that my tested bottle had an abnormally high lead content. I've been enjoying an occasional pour from a Old Fitz 7 year decanter from the late 60's. I think that I'll send a sample of it in next.
    -Eric

  5. #85

    Re: Leaching of Lead into Whiskey from Ceramic Decanter Glazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Special Reserve View Post
    I'm surprised how fast lead is leached into solution from the decanters.
    The ASTM method for determining leachable lead from a food contact vessel calls for a 24 hr 4% acetic acid leach(vinegar), so I would assume a vast majority of lead that is going to leach from a vessel occurs rapidly. I have never done any studies on long term leaching but I might have to give it a try especially given my growing collection of decanters..

  6. #86
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    Re: Leaching of Lead into Whiskey from Ceramic Decater Glazing

    Quote Originally Posted by wripvanwrinkle View Post
    For a while now, I've been looking for a health effect chart that is measured in ug/dL. I finally found one produced by the ATSDR; California Health Department in 1993:

    Adult Reactions to Lead (micrograms per deci-liter)
    Blood Lead Level Possible Health Effects
    15 ug/dL Increase in blood pressure; harmful effects on fetus; joint and muscle aches
    25 ug/dL Reproductive problems
    40 ug/dL Kidney damage; damage to blood formation
    60 ug/dL Anemia; nerve damage; constipation; stomach pains;
    irritability and fatigue; memory and concentration problems; clumsiness;
    drowsiness and sleep problems
    80 ug/dL
    &
    above
    Blue line on gums; uncontrollable shaking of hands; wrist and
    foot drop; hallucinations; brain damage; coma; death


    Per my original estimate of 1.83 ug/dL per drink (and assuming 1 drink per day), the first set of symptoms (high blood pressure/joint an muscle pain) would appear in about 5 days. This is interesting as when I was drinking this sample every day, I was starting to feel a tightness in my chest.

    Reproductive problems would kick in after about 2 weeks. Don't stress it though, my wife and I are done having kids.

    After about a month I get a little stupider, have trouble sleeping, and am likely acting like a real pain in the ass.

    Remember (from earlier) that about half of consumed lead is purged from the body every 30 days. I'm going to cheat and assume that this cleansing happens all at once.

    In another month (after 60 total days) I'm acting like a crack head. I might slip into coma. Even worse, I might just keel over dead. I think that now is the time to put that bottle aside. It is possible that my tested bottle had an abnormally high lead content. I've been enjoying an occasional pour from a Old Fitz 7 year decanter from the late 60's. I think that I'll send a sample of it in next.
    Lead is certainly a serious concern although it might be difficult to draw a direct correlation on the amount of lead in your system associated with drinking a lead contaminated liquid without drawing serial serum lead levels. Bioavailability of the lead may result in less being absorbed than is being consumed. And lead clearance is a continuous process of course. But I probably wouldn't drink the bourbon you had evaluated either. At least not on a regular basis!

    If you want more detail you might find the information found in the Lead Tox Profile on the ATSDR website to be of interest. It references leaded crystal as a source but I haven't read this in detail in awhile so I don't recall how extensively.

    1.3 How might I be exposed to lead?

    Lead may also enter foods if they are put into improperly glazed pottery or ceramic dishes and from leaded-crystal glassware. Illegal whiskey made using stills that contain lead-soldered parts (such as truck radiators) may also contain lead.
    That yella whiskey runnin' down my throat like honey dew vine water and I took another slash…

    Nullum Gratuitum Prandium
    Ne Illegitimi Carborundum

  7. #87
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    Re: Leaching of Lead into Whiskey from Ceramic Decater Glazing

    Quote Originally Posted by tanstaafl2 View Post
    Lead is certainly a serious concern although it might be difficult to draw a direct correlation on the amount of lead in your system associated with drinking a lead contaminated liquid without drawing serial serum lead levels. Bioavailability of the lead may result in less being absorbed than is being consumed. And lead clearance is a continuous process of course. But I probably wouldn't drink the bourbon you had evaluated either. At least not on a regular basis!
    I agree that there is always room for improvement, but please note that my calculation assumes a 15% absorption rate. Apparently 10-15% is common for lead digested into the blood stream. Also, I account for the 50% cleans although not admittedly daily. Having said that, the 2 month value works out to be almost the same.

    Again, although the concentration of my sample may be abnormally high...I think my calculations are sufficiently close to be a little disturbing.
    -Eric

  8. #88
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    Re: Leaching of Lead into Whiskey from Ceramic Decater Glazing

    Quote Originally Posted by wripvanwrinkle View Post
    I agree that there is always room for improvement, but please note that my calculation assumes a 15% absorption rate. Apparently 10-15% is common for lead digested into the blood stream. Also, I account for the 50% cleans although not admittedly daily. Having said that, the 2 month value works out to be almost the same.

    Again, although the concentration of my sample may be abnormally high...I think my calculations are sufficiently close to be a little disturbing.
    Missed that you had used a 15% absorption rate which is reasonable. And yes, the calculations are a bit disturbing. As I said I wouldn't drink it either!

    Would love to convince the NCEH lab to do an analysis on it.
    That yella whiskey runnin' down my throat like honey dew vine water and I took another slash…

    Nullum Gratuitum Prandium
    Ne Illegitimi Carborundum

  9. #89
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    Marietta, GA
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    Re: Leaching of Lead into Whiskey from Ceramic Decater Glazing

    Wow . . . I am SO bummed! I stumbled upon (and bought) a small 50 mL Wild Turkey decanter at a flea market today, in the box, tax stamped, with the cork broke off (but when I shook it, definitely liquid inside!) Found out it is from 1981 based on the series (it was still in the original box). 101 proof, 8 yrs old from 1981 . . . and I'm not supposed to drink it It was only $8, so not a big waste of money I guess. I may come back to this thread to try to read and understand the volume/timing pieces. Wondering if I drink just HALF of it, 25 mL, and a lot of water . . . might be OK.
    Gary
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
    "Too much of anything is bad, but too much of good whiskey is barely enough." - Mark Twain
    "Because Whiskey Matters!" - David Perkins

  10. #90
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    Re: Leaching of Lead into Whiskey from Ceramic Decater Glazing

    Well - didn't matter. When I poured it out, the fill was less than an ounce so my guess is that somewhere between 40-50% had evaporated. Smelled nice, but with no expectation of greatness and a potential for lead poisoning - dumped it.
    Gary
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
    "Too much of anything is bad, but too much of good whiskey is barely enough." - Mark Twain
    "Because Whiskey Matters!" - David Perkins

 

 

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