Causing trouble again on the ORVW Facebook page.

[dmarkle]

Here we go again. Old Rip posts something on Facebook, and I, of course, have to read into it. I prophecised during the Spring release that it would be the last of the PVW 15 to come from the Stitzel-Weller distillery. Others came to a similar conclusion and the rumor mill started churning up, with ORVW coming into the discussion on FB about how "rumors get started..."

Then comes the newest posts:

From one commenter: "When can we expect the release of the 15 year to distributors?"

From ORVW: "Late September to early October most likely (if everything goes as planned in the bottling hall)."

And then there's another post with a picture of a ton of small bottles (I guess for tasting individual barrels), with a bottle of PVW 15 in the center of it. Looks like they're tasting the new BT-based PVW 15 this release. I was worried initially, but I'm excited to be honest. I think it'll be great.

[DeanSheen]

Looks like they're tasting the new BT-based PVW 15 this release.

Not following you there.

You got all excited about the provenance of 2011 PVW based on a photo on facebook?

[Virus_Of_Life]

I think what he is referring to is that since recent previous releases were "Bottled ahead of time" this is a sign that they are tasting from a new distillate to try and match the profile. Of course I am sure we'll never get a straight story, but it definitely seems like the S-W pappy15 days would have come to an end.

I think they're doing themselves a disservice by not giving a straight story, or retiring the pappy label, but as long as there is enough people willing to pay the price they won't care.

[RyanL]

They claimed several months back on their FB page that the 15 would still be SW/Pappy fwiw. Someone can dig it up if they really want but I'm on my phone.

Edit: I understand what is being implied though based on the picture and their claim that all the 15/16 was bottled in advance years ago to last until???? Just saying what they specifically posted several months ago.

[dmarkle]

Not following you there.

You got all excited about the provenance of 2011 PVW based on a photo on facebook?

Not just from the pic, though it is photographic evidence corroborating my crazy conspiracy theories. Too bad I filtered out the PR&C threads, or I would tell you guys a thing or two about JFK and the "moon landings".

I quote Mr. Van Winkle, from this forum a while back:

In the last couple of years, we bottled up a 2-3 year supply of 15, 16 year to sell as 15 year Pappy. We still have some 20 year S/W in barrels to bottle as 20 year.

A 2-3 year supply must be running out by now. And I see them making comments about distributing the PVW 15 if things go well in the bottling hall, and I see some PVW 15 in amongst small bottles and tasting glasses. To me, that's proof positive that they're bottling new PVW. And for the provenance to change, it couldn't come from a barrel - it would have to come from a tank, or he'd have to be cracking open bottles and re-blending. Somehow that doesn't seem likely to me.

I can imagine why they don't talk about the provenance of the whiskey. I don't really have a problem with them not coming out and saying, "Hey this is no longer from XXX or YYY distillery" I mean, the implication there to many people would be that the new distillate would somehow be less than what came before it (though it will of course be less rare). IMO this is the real test for these guys. Can you take such a celebrated brand, where people have all been talking their heads off about the quality and whatnot and translate that to another distillery? Is the whiskeymaking as good at BT as it was in the last days of S-W? Is it better? Are your tasting and barrel blending skills good enough to make a whiskey worthy of the label? All good questions. I mean, Julian said himself that his "desert island" whiskey was some of the 15yo (Very) Old Fitz from a few years ago -- he said that was the "best stuff on earth". That seems to me like he feels there's some room for improvement in the PVW 15 product. That's exciting, because having not had the 15yo VOF, PVW 15 is my desert island bourbon.

I have no worries that the PVW 15 will become "Pappy van Winkle's Old Number 15"

[DeanSheen]

That seems to me like he feels there's some room for improvement in the PVW 15 product.

I agree with this assertion in that I feel the same way.

[unclebunk]

Not just from the pic, though it is photographic evidence corroborating my crazy conspiracy theories. Too bad I filtered out the PR&C threads, or I would tell you guys a thing or two about JFK and the "moon landings".

I quote Mr. Van Winkle, from this forum a while back:


A 2-3 year supply must be running out by now. And I see them making comments about distributing the PVW 15 if things go well in the bottling hall, and I see some PVW 15 in amongst small bottles and tasting glasses. To me, that's proof positive that they're bottling new PVW. And for the provenance to change, it couldn't come from a barrel - it would have to come from a tank, or he'd have to be cracking open bottles and re-blending. Somehow that doesn't seem likely to me.

I can imagine why they don't talk about the provenance of the whiskey. I don't really have a problem with them not coming out and saying, "Hey this is no longer from XXX or YYY distillery" I mean, the implication there to many people would be that the new distillate would somehow be less than what came before it (though it will of course be less rare). IMO this is the real test for these guys. Can you take such a celebrated brand, where people have all been talking their heads off about the quality and whatnot and translate that to another distillery? Is the whiskeymaking as good at BT as it was in the last days of S-W? Is it better? Are your tasting and barrel blending skills good enough to make a whiskey worthy of the label? All good questions. I mean, Julian said himself that his "desert island" whiskey was some of the 15yo (Very) Old Fitz from a few years ago -- he said that was the "best stuff on earth". That seems to me like he feels there's some room for improvement in the PVW 15 product. That's exciting, because having not had the 15yo VOF, PVW 15 is my desert island bourbon.

I have no worries that the PVW 15 will become "Pappy van Winkle's Old Number 15"

Nice post, D. Looking forward to trying the new bottles and glad I've still got a few 2008 bottles bunkered for comparison.

[cowdery]

Here's a question. What's more important? Having Pappy 15 be SW or having Pappy 15 be the best Pappy 15 it can be?

The "best Pappy 15 it can be" might, just might, for example, be a mixture of SW, BT and Bernheim distillate.

They may not be telling you now what the new Pappy 15 will be because they don't yet know. Ask them when they release it.

[Bourbon Boiler]

Assuming pricing it was it is regardless, my priorities would be:

1. Making it the best that it can be
2. Knowing what it is that I'm drinking - distillery being the main variable

100. Coming specifically from S-W or any other location.


I think the frustration on this board comes from not knowing what's coming; although I imagine we don't represent the broader market with that concern.

[dmarkle]

My feeling is that if the whiskey is still amazing, then that is all that matters to me, really. Provenance is good to know, for curious, academic reasons. I find it strange that some people get fixated on the distillery itself, as if it is something other than merely one of the determinants of quality.

I really don't care about the distillery in and of itself - IMO a new PVW 15 release, maintaining or improving upon the past will still be more desirable to me than, say, another dump of SW distillate under the JPS label (which can show a bit too much wood, especially in the 18 year expression)