BTAC and Van Winkle nonsense

[dohidied]

If I find them, I find them. In my travels dusty hunting around the bay, I've found old stock of various years of BTAC and every Pappy but the 15. I have more fun finding them by chance than checking shelves daily all October. The good thing about this being a wine-centric area is that there are plenty of stores that get allocations and never sell out. It just takes time to find them.

[StraightNoChaser]

I cherish my dusty finds much more than BTAC these days. My WC10 blows away WLW. My VWFRR blows away THH. My... well just about anything is better than ER17.

[smokinjoe]

It's almost not worth the effort anymore. And lately, I've been disenchanted by the BTAC. I think BT does fairly mediocre distilling compared to HH and 4R and it is readily apparent in these high proof bottlings. I found the 2011 4R LE 1B to have much more enjoyable flavor at 54% compared to my open GTS at 70%

Interesting take on the differnces in distillation between producers, SNC. Personal taste preferences aside, can you go into more detail on the areas that BT practices this "mediocre distilling"? Any parts of the process in particular, that are sub-par as compared to the others? How would they be different than HH and 4R? Also, what would you think the reason would be for maintaining this mediocrity in such a competitive industry?

As far as my BTAC hunting goes, if I see it, I may buy it. I may make a call, or two. I put about 30 seconds of effort into it. If it doesn't work out, no biggee. Other than that.... But to me, GTS, Saz 18, and THH are worth every penny I spend on them.

[PappyVW23]

I guess i just don't understand the post. It comes off as "i'm the old gristled veteran and these new "hobbyists" are snatching up the bourbon" then you go into a sort of sour grapes rant about how they aren't really worth it anyway so your going back to "standard" stuff which you, in your greater wisdom, know to be superior anyway. It sounds high and mighty frankly. I understand hobbyist is used in the pejorative and i have to laugh. If this isn't a hobby to you, what is it? This is a hobbyist forum is it not? Are you a professional? an addict? It is definitely a hobby of mine and i consider myself a hobbyist. I definitely buy all the bottles of pappy i can get my hands on. I sell some, drink some and trade some. These BTAC bourbons and the pappy stuff have been judged by the big boys and small boys as being good and rare. That always equals limited supply.

here is the perfect smiley for this thread . I hope i don't offend, i hope my interpretation of this thread informs not offends. but you guys just come off as a bunch of grumpy old men that are upset a bunch of new people are getting into your hobby. Well, they are. Remember when you got into it?

you know how i get my allotment? i talk to the store owners and employees about bourbon. I show them i truly appreciate their product and their time and you know what? they call me on my cell phone to say they got something in. I don't drive all over the place looking for it. Why would you? don't have a phone? I learn a lot and make new friends this way. walk in with an attitude and a wad of cash and you get nothing around here. The plain truth is there are more people that want this bourbon than is made to meet the demand. Same as anything else. Cars, houses, cigars.....bourbon.

i'm a hobbyist and i'm proud of it.

[StraightNoChaser]

Interesting take on the differnces in distillation between producers, SNC. Personal taste preferences aside, can you go into more detail on the areas that BT practices this "mediocre distilling"? Any parts of the process in particular, that are sub-par as compared to the others? How would they be different than HH and 4R? Also, what would you think the reason would be for maintaining this mediocrity in such a competitive industry?

It's all in the mouthfeel for me. In my opinion, good distillation means good texture, a lush and creamy feel almost. Most BT products I've had give me a more watery and thin texture.

[StraightNoChaser]

Can't say I could comment on the specific differences between 4R and BT production, I mean obviously there are a few I know but I'm not going to deconstruct the entire thing tit for tat. What I'm going on entirely is what I can sense in my mouth.

I am really not trying to hate, BT has a business model and a way of doing things - and it works well for them. But I am not exactly a fan of their products, most of them taste cheap.

[smokinjoe]

It's all in the mouthfeel for me. In my opinion, good distillation means good texture, a lush and creamy feel almost. Most BT products I've had give me a more watery and thin texture.

So, personal preferences aside, where do you see in their distillation procedures, that this lack of good texture comes from. Where do you think they are going wrong in their distillation? And, what are HH and 4R doing differently during distillation that results in their whiskies having the mouthfeel and texture you prefer?

[AaronWF]

As Happyhour24x7 stated, if one of these Van Winkles or BTACs fell into my lap then that's great; but I am no longer going to worry about having enough of them bunkered. It's just not worth it to me.

(For what it's worth, I still have 11 ORVW 10/107s, 7 PVW 15/107s, 2 2006 & 3 2007 Stagg, 2006 Handy, etc., in my pantry.)

So it was you who started this bunkering trend that makes these whiskeys so hard to come by? Why'd you do it?! I just wanna drink me some Pappy!

I hope i don't offend, i hope my interpretation of this thread informs not offends. but you guys just come off as a bunch of grumpy old men that are upset a bunch of new people are getting into your hobby. Well, they are. Remember when you got into it? i'm a hobbyist and i'm proud of it.

The "grumpy old men" theme is not uncommon throughout the forum. It doesn't bother me. While still pretty green 5-6 years into my whiskey drinking pursuits, I'm considered the grumpy old man among other hobbies of mine, like video games. And in between the outbursts of grump, there's still plenty of insight to glean.

I chanced upon a bottle of Pappy 15 five years ago and have been a dedicated bourbon connoisseur ever since. And apparently, I'm not the only one who's gone down this road.

I think Four Roses, with their 10 formulations, infinite combinations and outstanding quality are anticipating a run on their bourbon pretty well; and thank goodness!

[StraightNoChaser]

I assume it's due in part to the massive height of their stills, distillation proof, BEP, and how big of a cut they're taking during distillation.

I am not an expert on either distilleries' exact practices so I'll reiterate that I cannot tell you specifically what each producer is doing differently that I like and do not like. All I can comment on is what I sense and what I know about whiskey production that alters textures and flavors.

[SMOWK]

Do you think this may be because of marketing decisions to keep supply limited, or perhaps just an inability to find the resources, i.e. people, time, ingredients, etc., to meet demand?

I don't think BT can keep up with demand. I also don't think that they (BT/VW) could have ever guessed 10 or 20 years ago how much the demand would increase over the past 5 years. For the VWs we speak of, they would have had to guess that demand in 1992, when people such as myself were 11 and thinking more about chocolate milk than whiskey.

If Scotland can meet the demand then why can't we? I have to believe that the BTAC and Van Winkle producers have known for years about the demand for their products and could have planned for ageing more whiskey to meet the increase...

Scotland is the worlds largest producer of whisky, and has been for quite some time. They have also been able to charge $100+/bottle for quite some time. It didn't climb that high all at once either. Bourbon on the other hand, I've seen PVW go from $30/bottle to $100/bottle ($150 on ebay) in just the past few years. It takes a lot longer than that to make it.