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  1. #11
    **DONOTDELETE**
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    Re: \"Straight\" vs. \"Bonded\"

    Thanks, Bettye Jo. I'm glad to know one of my favorites is still with us.
    And you can bet we're cheering you on, too!

    =John=
    http://w3.one.net/~jeffelle/whiskey

  2. #12
    Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Frankfort, KY
    Posts
    499

    Re: \"Straight\" vs. \"Bonded\"

    OUCH! Mike, I can tell you that during market visits to Louisiana, I have seen bottles of Bonded Old Charter that are at least 5-10 years old. We still produce some bonded whiskey, however, consumers have voted with their pocketbooks and they have migrated away from those 100 proof offerings.

    Ken


  3. #13
    **DONOTDELETE**
    Guest

    Re: \"Straight\" vs. \"Bonded\"

    Ken,
    Using Old Charter as an example is not a very good way to go. I worked for U.D. during the period that you are talking about (5-10 years ago) and I know that they put little or no money into advertising the brand as a whole. They were letting the brand die a slow death so of course Charter Bond from that era is still going to be on the shelf. What are your figures for AA Bonded? that would be a better example unless yor company was also failing to support the brand. I have heard marketing people at U.D. and B.F. say that "Bonded whiskey is too old Fashioned to sell. It needs to be modern and hip to sell." In my opinion these marketing people were just plain wrong (and some of them at U.D. were Bozos as well).
    Mike Veach


  4. #14
    **DONOTDELETE**
    Guest

    Re: \"Straight\" vs. \"Bonded\"

    Don't want to hurt anyone's feelings here, but folks, it's just plain old Machiavellian economics...

    Y'see, it costs more to produce Bonded bourbon than it does to produce regular 100-proof and people will buy it anyway. So why bother? In fact, if you dilute it down to 90 proof, you'll save more money than what you'll lose from disgusted soon-to-be-ex-customers. Most won't even know the difference. So let's do that. Of course, there are limits; our marketing experts found that taking it down to 86-proof will lose you more revenue than what you'll save, so you'd better just stop at 90. What a shame we have to deal with a nosy, intrusive federal government that forces us to actually change the labels each time we lower the proof. Life was better in the good old days of freedom from gov'mint oppression.

    Is that what people mean when they talk about consumers voting with their pocketbooks?

    By the way, does anyone remember what was being said about Sazerac 18yr Rye when it first came out at 90 proof? That would have been AFTER all the reviewers had sampled the original 110-proof version they were expected to write about? That's the version that won all those medals and honors. Search through these very forum pages, folks (that'll be a lot easier now that Jim has redesigned the search defaults. Thanks Jim!)

    Dangerous place, the internet; it never forgets.

    =John=
    http://w3.one.net/~jeffelle/whiskey

  5. #15
    **DONOTDELETE**
    Guest

    Re: \"Straight\" vs. \"Bonded\"

    John,
    I agree that economics play a large part in this decision. I still say that Bonded Bourbon can be economically feasable. I would pay extra for a good 8 year old bonded Very Old Fitzgerald and I am sure others would too.
    Mike Veach


  6. #16
    **DONOTDELETE**
    Guest

    Re: \"Straight\" vs. \"Bonded\"

    Don't be so sure Mike. I just picked up two bottles of the 12YO Very Special Old Fitzgerald 90 proof for 19 bucks a pop on sale. Why would I want to pay more?

    Linn Spencer

    Have Shotglass. Will Travel.

  7. #17
    **DONOTDELETE**
    Guest

    Re: \"Straight\" vs. \"Bonded\"

    Linn,
    You are comparing oranges and apples. What is the cost of an Old Fitzgerald Bottled in Bond? That is what I was talking about. I would pay $15.00 or $20.00 for a good 8 year old bonded Old Fitzgerald compared to the $10.00 or so for a regular bonded Old Fitzgerald which is about 4 or 5 years old.
    Mike Veach


  8. #18
    Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Frankfort, KY
    Posts
    499

    Re: \"Straight\" vs. \"Bonded\"

    John,
    I am confused, which occurs all too often. However, I have handled the Sazerac Rye from the beginning and as far as I know, it was never 110 proof. Please point me in the right direction among the threads so I can see what you are referring to. I know that the samples sent to John Hansel (Malt Advocate), Paul Pacult, and Wine Enthusiast were all 90 proof.
    I agree that our old Elmer T. Lee 110 proof and current Weller Antique (107) have a taste that true bourbon lovers hold dear, unfortunately, the masses have been moving away from high proof spirits. I know that Bookers is barrel strength, but products of this type, though very good, don't sell enough to make them viable in the long run.
    If economics determined what we produce, we would not have developed our current 17,18, and 19 year old offerings. In addition, with a shelf price of under $40, obviously making a killing did not enter into the equation. We wanted to present the market with fine old whiskies that we knew the masses would not like, rather, we were simply catering to those who have a great love for whiskey.

    Ken
    PS. No feelings hurt here. And I do understand where you are coming from.


  9. #19
    **DONOTDELETE**
    Guest

    Re: \"Straight\" vs. \"Bonded\"

    Mike,
    If Linn is comparing oranges with apples, you are comparing them with grapefruit. The question isn't whether 8-year-old bonded bourbon is better than 4-year-old -- of course it is. But just how much more would an 8-year-old 100-proof BONDED bourbon cost than an 8-year-old 100 proof not-bonded one? On the surface, nothing. In fact, there's a tax-deferment on the bonded product. But since the unbonded one doesn't need to meet the more stringent requirements of bonding, they can get away with using CHEAPER WHISKEY. That's the only real difference, and that's what seems to be happening more and more.

    =John=
    http://w3.one.net/~jeffelle/whiskey

  10. #20
    **DONOTDELETE**
    Guest

    Re: \"Straight\" vs. \"Bonded\"

    So Ken if I read you right what you are saying here is that businessmen do on occasion act in ethical ways to build their businesses, are not purely diven by greed and do so of their own volition and not by government edict? Do you realize that you're setting a *GOOD* example? Egads man! You tear the heart and soul out of the "Bigger government is better government" argument! GOOD WORK SIR!

    Linn Spencer

    Have Shotglass. Will Travel.

 

 

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