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  1. #41
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    Re: Quintessential Inexpensive Rye

    Quote Originally Posted by cowdery View Post
    I don't agree with that demeaning and insulting view of either American whiskey drinkers or retailers. Overholt, Beam, Turkey and Rittenhouse (Heaven Hill) kept rye alive when it virtually went extinct. They continued to supply rye drinkers and rye drinkers, despite their shrinking numbers, continued to buy those brands, which had enough patronage to survive. Just because I like something different than what somebody else likes doesn't automatically mean they are mindless sheep who are brainwashed into buying a substandard product, as you and many others seem to believe. Give people a little more credit. Why does liking something you don't have to make them idiots?
    Shoot, what ryes were even readily available in most places even 7 years ago? I was barely old enough to drink whiskey then, and wasn't paying attention. For the rye drinker like me, right now is awesome. Tomorrow is looking better. I can afford to be picky enough to say that I don't like most of the 6+ 95%ers out there. I can be picky enough to say I don't prefer OO. But readily available ryes pre 2002? In the mid 90's?
    Quote Originally Posted by SMOWK View Post
    I like to save up the charred bits in the bottom of the unfiltered stuff. When I have enough, I pour milk on it and eat it.

  2. #42
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    Re: Quintessential Inexpensive Rye

    Quote Originally Posted by cowdery View Post
    I don't agree with that demeaning and insulting view of either American whiskey drinkers or retailers. Overholt, Beam, Turkey and Rittenhouse (Heaven Hill) kept rye alive when it virtually went extinct. They continued to supply rye drinkers and rye drinkers, despite their shrinking numbers, continued to buy those brands, which had enough patronage to survive. Just because I like something different than what somebody else likes doesn't automatically mean they are mindless sheep who are brainwashed into buying a substandard product, as you and many others seem to believe. Give people a little more credit. Why does liking something you don't have to make them idiots?
    First of all, I should have been more specific in my post. Due to my job in wine wholesale, I was referring to professional restaurant/retail buyers who decide on which placements to make. Those people are the lazy ones. I was not referring to the public who buys these products. And there are many dynamic people in these decision maker roles, but the majority are not. Let me add that I am often forced to order Beam products, as those are all that most restaurants carry in my state. So I am one of those idiots who drink Beam Rye on-premise.

    And they are not sheep for drinking Beam Rye, but rather the problem is that the industry does not give them better options. Who on this forum would prefer Beam Rye to Pikesville or Ritt? But unfortunately, Heaven Hill is number 2, to Beam's number 1.

    Also, I never once called anyone an idiot. You used that term.

    Also, I have praised Turkey Rye and Ritt plenty of times on this forum.

    The other problem is no other company came in to really supply the bottom-shelf Rye market, except for Beam. That may be the case, but it is lamentable.

    Some people on this site are big apologists for Beam. I am not one.
    Last edited by White Dog; 12-12-2011 at 17:48.

  3. #43
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    Re: Quintessential Inexpensive Rye

    Quote Originally Posted by White Dog View Post
    The other problem is no other company came in to really supply the bottom-shelf Rye market, except for Beam. That may be the case, but it is lamentable.
    I agree with White Dog - he makes the best point - it's a "bottom shelf" Rye. It's like arguing about why we don't sing the praises of or steer people to $12/liter bourbon.

    Rye is a slightly premium group given the above $15 entry point (at least where I am) - but among the Rye choices, Beam is priced (and tastes like) the bottom shelf.

    It's easily $4-5 less than any other competitor (20%-25% less) which, lets face it, in this economy is a difference maker. Beam prices & positions their Rye (and some of their other products) at the bottom of the tier, and expects it to be consumed by folks with a "bottom shelf" mindset. That doesn't mean they don't have premium/super-premium products, because as we all know they do... but JB Rye isn't one of them.

    If I wanted to steer someone to the best experience, JB Rye won't be on the list.

    We don't get flack for dogging on Jack Daniels or Crown Royal (category/market leaders). Why the grousing over dogging on JB Rye or Old Overcoat? They simply aren't very good.

    I'm sure there are plenty of people who enjoy it as a mixer - and I'd bet that the vast majority of the JB Rye sales go to bars/restaurant by significant margin - than are sold off the shelf. But if you need a rye for making drinks, and you aren't discriminating, you'll buy the cheapest one - and JB Rye wins that battle hands-down. That's where the sales come from - not from people trying to have a "good rye experience." Nothing wrong with that, either - I buy generic Kahlua, Baileys, Midori, etc. all the time - because I can't tell the difference, and don't care because I'm mixing them - and primarily because they are MUCH cheaper.

    That's the niche JB Rye fills... not for the person searching for the quintessential inexpensive Rye!
    Last edited by timd; 12-12-2011 at 18:42.

  4. #44
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    Re: Quintessential Inexpensive Rye

    Quote Originally Posted by timd View Post
    I agree with White Dog - he makes the best point - it's a "bottom shelf" Rye. It's like arguing about why we don't sing the praises of or steer people to $12/liter bourbon....

    ...We don't get flack for dogging on Jack Daniels or Crown Royal (category/market leaders). Why the grousing over dogging on JB Rye or Old Overcoat? They simply aren't very good....

    ...That's the niche JB Rye fills... not for the person searching for the quintessential inexpensive Rye!

    Let me throw myself under the bus for a moment. Excluding Jim Beam Rye would be like me excluding all of the 95%+ers.

    No, Jim Beam isn't a glorious whiskey... But it's okay, readily available, and really inexpensive. As an example of the whiskey craft, it's probably better than their white label. As Chuck pointed out, it maintained the rye market when only a select few were drinking rye.

    Jim Beam rye was the first rye I tried, followed by RRR90. And you know? I actually knew that I liked rye when I tried the beam- even though it isn't the best.

    The major problem with Beam rye is that its a bit thin. And that isn't really a problem to the inexperienced drinker.

    I think Jim Beam gets flack for the same reason that JD and CR do. The same reason that I have given maker's so much crap in the past.
    Quote Originally Posted by SMOWK View Post
    I like to save up the charred bits in the bottom of the unfiltered stuff. When I have enough, I pour milk on it and eat it.

  5. #45
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    Re: Quintessential Inexpensive Rye

    If someone is curious about whiskey, it's easy to walk into a liquor store and buy a bottle. Anywhere in the country, and just about anywhere in the world where American whiskey is sold, the rye on the shelf will be Beam Rye. Nobody needs to come here and be steered to the ubiquitous bottom-shelvers; that is something Beam and Co. are pros at doing themselves. People come here to learn about how to go about finding the good buys they've never heard of. Anyone can spend $10 for the juice in the plastic bottle, but places like this forum can help someone find the step up in quality for the step up in price in the $20 range and beyond.
    Last edited by AaronWF; 12-13-2011 at 10:55.
    "A man comes from the dust and in the dust he will end-- In the meantime it is good to drink whiskey."
    -->WhiskeyWonka<--

  6. #46
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    Re: Quintessential Inexpensive Rye

    Quote Originally Posted by ErichPryde View Post
    Jim Beam rye was the first rye I tried. And you know? I actually knew that I liked rye when I tried the beam- even though it isn't the best.
    Same here. When I discovered bourbon in 2008 it was hard for me to find any information about rye (I hadn't discovered SB.com yet) or find any in a store. But there was Jim Beam Rye, staring at me on a shelf. I bought a bottle and said "Aha, that is different from bourbon!" I wouldn't buy another bottle today, but it's far from rotgut.

  7. #47
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    Re: Quintessential Inexpensive Rye

    Quote Originally Posted by AaronWF View Post
    If someone is curious about whiskey, it's easy to walk into a liquor store and buy a bottle. Anywhere in the country, and just about anywhere in the world where American whiskey is sold, the rye on the shelf will be Beam Rye. Nobody needs to come here and be steered to the ubiquitous bottom-shelvers; that is something Beam and Co. are pros at doing themselves. People come here to learn about how to go about finding the good buys they've never heard of. Anyone can spend $10 for the juice in the plastic bottle, but places like this forum can help someone find the step up in quality for the step up in price in the $20 range and beyond.
    Quality is a relative thing, and it isn't necessarily a function of cost. The entire point is that just because we're all whiskey snobs with a bunch of better recommendations, it doesn't mean anyone should discount the bottom shelf if they haven't tried the ""plastic"" bottles down there. Additionally, Rye drinkers owe some thanks to beam.
    Quote Originally Posted by SMOWK View Post
    I like to save up the charred bits in the bottom of the unfiltered stuff. When I have enough, I pour milk on it and eat it.

  8. #48
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    Re: Quintessential Inexpensive Rye

    Quote Originally Posted by ErichPryde View Post
    Quality is a relative thing, and it isn't necessarily a function of cost. The entire point is that just because we're all whiskey snobs with a bunch of better recommendations, it doesn't mean anyone should discount the bottom shelf if they haven't tried the ""plastic"" bottles down there. Additionally, Rye drinkers owe some thanks to beam.
    Agreed, Erik. I've been totally enjoying an 80 proof, sub-$20, PET plastic, 1.75 liter, bottle of Fleischmann's Rye over the last few weeks. All of that neither sounds, nor looks good, but is wonderful whiskey, and I'd pay triple...
    JOE

    Wag more.
    Bark less.

    "Every bottle is its own learning experience." -- Sensei Ox-sama

  9. #49
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    Re: Quintessential Inexpensive Rye

    Quote Originally Posted by smokinjoe View Post
    Agreed, Erik. I've been totally enjoying an 80 proof, sub-$20, PET plastic, 1.75 liter, bottle of Fleischmann's Rye over the last few weeks. All of that neither sounds, nor looks good, but is wonderful whiskey, and I'd pay triple...
    Now that is a fine 80proof Rye. You must have a connection in my state to be holding one of those, as it's WI only. I only hope Sazerac keeps releasing it in that form.

  10. #50
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    Re: Quintessential Inexpensive Rye

    Quote Originally Posted by smokinjoe View Post
    Agreed, Erik. I've been totally enjoying an 80 proof, sub-$20, PET plastic, 1.75 liter, bottle of Fleischmann's Rye over the last few weeks. All of that neither sounds, nor looks good, but is wonderful whiskey, and I'd pay triple...
    Now that's a rye I haven't tried, and would love to. I'll have to hunt one down one of these days! Who owns the fleischmann's name?
    Quote Originally Posted by SMOWK View Post
    I like to save up the charred bits in the bottom of the unfiltered stuff. When I have enough, I pour milk on it and eat it.

 

 

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