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Thread: Barton rye?

  1. #11
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    Re: Barton rye?

    Quote Originally Posted by AaronWF View Post
    Great info guys. I just recently learned (learned is a strong word, as it only takes looking at the label...) that the 21yr was aged in used cooperage, which is a very odd thing to hear about an American-made rye whiskey. The label on the 16yr states that it was rescued from barrels destined for use in Canadian blends, so that clearly is [one of] the purposes Barton fulfilled as a rye distiller.
    Canadian producers can get a tax break on product they import into the United States by using some U.S.-made spirit, up to 9.9% of the batch's total volume.

    Chuck, when you say that most of the companies have a whole bunch of different recipes, are you you saying that most companies that do a lot of 'bulk' whiskey distilling typically have many recipes that they can offer to make for their client, or are you saying that in general most companies 'own' recipes for multiple mashes?
    Most have a file of recipes that have been made successfully in their distillery in the past, but they don't necessarily use them very often. Some are vestiges from when there was a lot more contract distilling going on.

    Is contract distilling different from bulk distilling? Like with B-F making Ritt for HH, I assume they are making the juice to HH's specifications rather than offering to distill whiskey from 2 or 3 different mashbills that they specialize in.
    BF making Rit for HH is a good example. Working with HH, BF went into their files and found a rye whiskey they had made at that distillery many years ago and that became the starting point for BF-made Rit. They also tweaked it along the way.

    LDI, on the other hand, seems to just make 95% rye, and whoever wants it can buy it. LDI makes what they make, and is not in the business of catering to a client's requested recipe...?
    Same thing, really. LDI's recipes are what they made for Seagram. Primarily they were the flavoring whiskeys for Seagram Seven, but also used for the Seagram Canadian blends per the tax break mentioned above. LDI has continued to make Seagram Seven for Diageo but when they have excess of those flavoring whiskeys, they can and do sell it to folks like Templeton and High West.

    The difference between contract and bulk is that with contract, the customer agrees to pay you $x to make a certain amount of a certain whiskey and may also pay you an annual fee to age it. In effect if not in reality, the customer owns the whiskey before the first kernel of corn goes through the mill so the producer's profit, though typically modest, is assured. With bulk, the distiller makes and ages the product at their own expense, on the if-come, in anticipation of selling it at a profit at a future date.

    There are different kinds of contracts, lots of possible variations, but that's the basic outline.
    Last edited by cowdery; 01-18-2012 at 14:23.

  2. #12
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    Re: Barton rye?

    Quote Originally Posted by sku View Post
    High West 21 is a Barton rye but a lower rye mashbill than the 16 (the 21 is 53% rye, 37% corn, 10% barley).

    I assume Barton is still making Fleischman's, but I don't know for sure. I think it has always been reserved for Wisconsin for some reason.

    It will be interesting to see what BT does with the Barton distillery. I'd love to see more rye as well as an expanded market for VOB, but so far, they seem to be concentrating mostly on 1792.
    This has been a great thread- I had recently come across several bottles of the HW21 rye at a good price, and they followed me home.

    After sampling and a short comparison to Vintage 21 rye, VWFRR, and Handy rye I was curious as to the source for this HW21. It is very tasty and holds an excellent clean rye expression that I find very attractive. Very different than the others for sure. Glad I got the second bottle, as the first one is going fast...

    Cheers,

    RW
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  3. #13
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    Re: Barton rye?

    Quote Originally Posted by cowdery View Post
    The difference between contract and bulk is that with contract, the customer agrees to pay you $x to make a certain amount of a certain whiskey and may also pay you an annual fee to age it. In effect if not in reality, the customer owns the whiskey before the first kernel of corn goes through the mill so the producer's profit, though typically modest, is assured. With bulk, the distiller makes and ages the product at their own expense, on the if-come, in anticipation of selling it at a profit at a future date.
    Thanks for providing that "bare bones" explanation of the
    differences between the two. I sometimes confuse them
    (as I do "wheated" and "wheater") and it's nice to have that
    cleared up.
    John Q.
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    Someone will pay it. Someone always pays it.

  4. #14
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    Re: Barton rye?

    Quote Originally Posted by White Dog View Post
    FWIW, Fleischmann's Rye(From Barton) is still on shelves in Northern Wisconsin for about $18.99 a handle. I believe the liters were discontinued.

    And yes, it is quite tasty for a young 80 proofer.
    We have this dive of a bar and grille in town that has a liquor store front and they have a lot of different Barton products like gin and vodka. They also have a Fleischmann's Rye but its a blend. I take it the one you speak of is a straight rye?
    Lurk on
    Is not posting on a thread a bad thing when you're not an expert on the given topic?
    Lurk off

  5. #15
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    Re: Barton rye?

    The one we always discuss here is a straight rye. Never heard of a blend. Does it say blended rye or blended whiskey? Fleischmann's blended whiskey is widely distributed.

  6. #16
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    Re: Barton rye?

    Quote Originally Posted by the Duff View Post
    We have this dive of a bar and grille in town that has a liquor store front and they have a lot of different Barton products like gin and vodka. They also have a Fleischmann's Rye but its a blend. I take it the one you speak of is a straight rye?
    Yes, I'm speaking of Fleischmann's Straight Rye.

  7. #17
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    Re: Barton rye?

    Probably a dumb question at this point...but, what is the difference between LDI and Barton ryes other than being from different sources? I may have interpreted incorrectly, but it sounds like the recipes/mashbills are very similar. Having sampled a couple of High West ryes, I think I have had both. If so, I did not detect much - if any, difference in the two.

  8. #18
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    Re: Barton rye?

    The LDI is 95% rye and was created to be a flavoring whiskey for blends. The Barton rye has a more conventional mash bill, probably 51% rye like the rest of the straight ryes. Any claims to the contrary for Barton rye need to be verified, because straight rye makers typically don't go above the minimum of 51% because rye is expensive, and Barton has never been known for spending money it doesn't have to spend.

  9. #19
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    Re: Barton rye?

    Quote Originally Posted by cowdery View Post
    The LDI is 95% rye and was created to be a flavoring whiskey for blends. The Barton rye has a more conventional mash bill, probably 51% rye like the rest of the straight ryes. Any claims to the contrary for Barton rye need to be verified, because straight rye makers typically don't go above the minimum of 51% because rye is expensive, and Barton has never been known for spending money it doesn't have to spend.
    Thanks very much...that clears up that part of my muddled memory bank...at least for the next 12 months or upon consumption of 3 more bottles of Stagg...whichever comes first.

  10. #20
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    Re: Barton rye?

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Lamplighter View Post
    Probably a dumb question at this point...but, what is the difference between LDI and Barton ryes other than being from different sources? I may have interpreted incorrectly, but it sounds like the recipes/mashbills are very similar. Having sampled a couple of High West ryes, I think I have had both. If so, I did not detect much - if any, difference in the two.
    Quote Originally Posted by cowdery View Post
    The LDI is 95% rye and was created to be a flavoring whiskey for blends. The Barton rye has a more conventional mash bill, probably 51% rye like the rest of the straight ryes. Any claims to the contrary for Barton rye need to be verified, because straight rye makers typically don't go above the minimum of 51% because rye is expensive, and Barton has never been known for spending money it doesn't have to spend.
    The two mashbills for the HW rye that apparently comes from Barton are 53/37/10 (rye/corn/barley malt) and 80/10/10. According to HW's website, Rendezvous is made of a 6yo 95% rye (LDI) and a 16yo 80% rye (same as the straight 16yo). HW's 21yo rye is 53%, though it's not straight as it's been aged in used oak. HW's Double Rye has a 2yo 95% and a 16yo 53%.

    So as far as difference between the Barton and LDI, it seems pretty clear that Barton's two mashbills of 53% and 80% rye are quite different from LDI's rye.

    HW's website also gives an interesting history of how LDI's rye mashbill changed over the years.

    Quote Originally Posted by cowdery View Post
    There are different kinds of contracts, lots of possible variations, but that's the basic outline.
    I appreciate the lesson, Chuck!
    "A man comes from the dust and in the dust he will end-- In the meantime it is good to drink whiskey."
    -->WhiskeyWonka<--

 

 

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