Welcome to the Straightbourbon.com Forums.
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 20 of 20
  1. #11
    Bourbonian of the Year 2002 and Guru
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    12,544

    Re: 20 yr aged bourbons???

    Any bourbon has the potential to taste great at 20 years and, similarly, any bourbon has the potential to taste awful at that age. There are things you can do, as the producer, to improve the odds, mostly by aging selected barrels in a low, interior part of the warehouse where they will tend to age slowly. But even doing that, it's hit or miss. Very old bourbon, even the best examples, isn't for everyone, and some of the very old product on the market isn't very good.

  2. #12
    Virtuoso
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Tallahassee
    Posts
    1,364

    Re: 20 yr aged bourbons???

    As has been stated here many times, the cost of maintaining & aging those barrels is higher....and, who knows how much is going to be left after the angel's share?
    I think the industry typically expects about 3.5 to 4% of a barrel's volume given to the angels every year, on average. Some groups picking barrels have noticed that "light" barrels or those that have a lot more angel share than typical seem to have more intense flavors.

    Sugars don't leave the wood and migrate into the juice at a uniform rate from barrel to barrel. When the sugars are depleted the biggest thing the barrel gives the Bourbon is added wood harshness. After the sugars are depleted there is about a six month window before the harshness begins to appear. That's the ideal time to dump it. If it is stored in the bottom of a cool warehouse it might be best at something near 20 years, or maybe not, the other variables previously mentioned would come into play.

  3. #13
    Connoisseur
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    downtown DC
    Posts
    749

    Re: 20 yr aged bourbons???

    Quote Originally Posted by clingman71 View Post
    Basil Hayden might set the world on fire at 100 proof.
    I'd buy it without hesitation at $40 or less.

  4. #14
    Connoisseur
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The Garden State
    Posts
    542

    Re: 20 yr aged bourbons???

    Quote Originally Posted by bad_scientist View Post
    I'd buy it without hesitation at $40 or less.
    I guess that needs to be adjusted by locarion. The 80 proof runs just over $40 here in NJ.

  5. #15
    Connoisseur
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    downtown DC
    Posts
    749

    Re: 20 yr aged bourbons???

    Quote Originally Posted by JayMonster View Post
    I guess that needs to be adjusted by locarion. The 80 proof runs just over $40 here in NJ.
    Now that's one overpriced bourbon...

  6. #16
    Bourbonian of the Year 2010 and Guru
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Kentucky!
    Posts
    4,749

    Re: 20 yr aged bourbons???

    Quote Originally Posted by JayMonster View Post
    I mean (from what I have been told here), Basil Hayden is aged OGD, and it isn't exactly setting the world on fire,

    I would bet good money that they sell vastly more Basil Hayden every year than Van Winkle sells 20yo (or possibly more than the entire VW line)
    2010 Bourbonian of the Year

    As long as you have good whiskey you're not "unemployed", you're "Funemployed!!!"

    I'm no Pappyophile

  7. #17
    Connoisseur
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    downtown DC
    Posts
    749

    Re: 20 yr aged bourbons???

    Quote Originally Posted by barturtle View Post
    I would bet good money that they sell vastly more Basil Hayden every year than Van Winkle sells 20yo (or possibly more than the entire VW line)
    I think the whole VW line is just ~7000 cases per year.

  8. #18
    Connoisseur
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Kilgore, TX
    Posts
    683

    Re: 20 yr aged bourbons???

    Interesting question, and here's one idea.

    Heaven Hill. They do Evan Williams and Elijah Craig. Ages vary between 4 years and 18 years. Same mash, same distillate, the only difference is warehouse location and age.

    Now, how does EC18 compare to Pappy 20? I don't know, as I have not been able to try a Pappy. But I can walk into a few stores around this relatively cheap bourbon budget area and get an EC18.

  9. #19
    Connoisseur
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The Garden State
    Posts
    542

    Re: 20 yr aged bourbons???

    Quote Originally Posted by barturtle View Post
    I would bet good money that they sell vastly more Basil Hayden every year than Van Winkle sells 20yo (or possibly more than the entire VW line)
    Exactly my point... Now age that BH another 12 years and raise the price accordingly. If sales then drop to Pappy levels, what benefit is that to the distillers?

    The ultra-premium certainly has a niche market, but that is what it is... A niche.

  10. #20
    Guru
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Metro Detroit
    Posts
    5,130

    Re: 20 yr aged bourbons???

    Quote Originally Posted by fricky View Post
    Not everyone likes 20 year old Pappy Van Winkle. Those that do not like it, dislike heavily wooded bourbons. Most distillers believe that bourbon peaks in 6 to 8 years. Why risk losing so much volume in 20 years and result in an expensive bourbon that may not be popular? Also, if you are currently selling all of the bourbon you produce, why take up space for another 12 to 14 years with something that may be undrinkable or at best, appeal to a smaller group?
    Quote Originally Posted by smokinjoe View Post
    Frankly, if someone were to offer me my choice OF Signature, OGD 114, VOBBIB, EWBIB, and Pappy 20, I'd probably pick each one 20% of the time. Even if at the same price point. I would just say, don't read too much into increased aging. Like WIG posted earlier, it's just one part of the total picture. And can in fact, degrade a whiskey, rather than help it.
    Quote Originally Posted by cowdery View Post
    Any bourbon has the potential to taste great at 20 years and, similarly, any bourbon has the potential to taste awful at that age. There are things you can do, as the producer, to improve the odds, mostly by aging selected barrels in a low, interior part of the warehouse where they will tend to age slowly. But even doing that, it's hit or miss. Very old bourbon, even the best examples, isn't for everyone, and some of the very old product on the market isn't very good.
    What they all said.

    I agree that it would be nice to see versions of some low or mid-shef bourbons and ryes at double-digit ages (like Old Forester, Old Grand-dad, VOB). But some of my least favorite premium whiskeys are those in the 16+ yr range. Not a fan of the Pappy 20, 23, Eagle Rare 17, Sazerac 18, KBD's Vintage line or even the 4R Single Barrel 100th anniversary bottle. Elijah Craig 18 is the only one in that age range I can really say that I like, and even those are hit or miss. The Van Winkle Rye is very good too, but it's not something I can drink all the time and its stated age is only 13 so we can't rule out some 13 y/o stuff in the mix.

    Anyway, I would love to see more creativity on the part of some distillers, but older is only better up to a point, that point usually being 15 yrs.
    bibamus, moriendum est
    Sipology Blog

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. Doubled Aged
    By Josh in forum General Bourbon Discussion
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 07-28-2010, 10:00
  2. The Fine, Aged Rum Thread
    By boss302 in forum Non-Whiskey Alcohol
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 09-30-2009, 06:40
  3. Gin isn't aged?
    By Vision in forum Non-Whiskey Alcohol
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 03-19-2005, 08:45
  4. "Solera" Aged Bourbon?
    By Dave_in_Canada in forum General Bourbon Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-25-2004, 15:58
  5. Grain whiskey (was Re: Gin isn't aged?)
    By OneCubeOnly in forum Non-Whiskey Alcohol
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 10-18-2004, 09:20

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Back to top