20 yr aged bourbons???

[cowdery]

Any bourbon has the potential to taste great at 20 years and, similarly, any bourbon has the potential to taste awful at that age. There are things you can do, as the producer, to improve the odds, mostly by aging selected barrels in a low, interior part of the warehouse where they will tend to age slowly. But even doing that, it's hit or miss. Very old bourbon, even the best examples, isn't for everyone, and some of the very old product on the market isn't very good.

[sailor22]

As has been stated here many times, the cost of maintaining & aging those barrels is higher....and, who knows how much is going to be left after the angel's share?

I think the industry typically expects about 3.5 to 4% of a barrel's volume given to the angels every year, on average. Some groups picking barrels have noticed that "light" barrels or those that have a lot more angel share than typical seem to have more intense flavors.

Sugars don't leave the wood and migrate into the juice at a uniform rate from barrel to barrel. When the sugars are depleted the biggest thing the barrel gives the Bourbon is added wood harshness. After the sugars are depleted there is about a six month window before the harshness begins to appear. That's the ideal time to dump it. If it is stored in the bottom of a cool warehouse it might be best at something near 20 years, or maybe not, the other variables previously mentioned would come into play.

[bad_scientist]

Basil Hayden might set the world on fire at 100 proof.

I'd buy it without hesitation at $40 or less.

[JayMonster]

I'd buy it without hesitation at $40 or less.

I guess that needs to be adjusted by locarion. The 80 proof runs just over $40 here in NJ.

[bad_scientist]

I guess that needs to be adjusted by locarion. The 80 proof runs just over $40 here in NJ.

Now that's one overpriced bourbon...

[barturtle]

I mean (from what I have been told here), Basil Hayden is aged OGD, and it isn't exactly setting the world on fire,

I would bet good money that they sell vastly more Basil Hayden every year than Van Winkle sells 20yo (or possibly more than the entire VW line)

[bad_scientist]

I would bet good money that they sell vastly more Basil Hayden every year than Van Winkle sells 20yo (or possibly more than the entire VW line)

I think the whole VW line is just ~7000 cases per year.

[Young Blacksmith]

Interesting question, and here's one idea.

Heaven Hill. They do Evan Williams and Elijah Craig. Ages vary between 4 years and 18 years. Same mash, same distillate, the only difference is warehouse location and age.

Now, how does EC18 compare to Pappy 20? I don't know, as I have not been able to try a Pappy. But I can walk into a few stores around this relatively cheap bourbon budget area and get an EC18.

[JayMonster]

I would bet good money that they sell vastly more Basil Hayden every year than Van Winkle sells 20yo (or possibly more than the entire VW line)

Exactly my point... Now age that BH another 12 years and raise the price accordingly. If sales then drop to Pappy levels, what benefit is that to the distillers?

The ultra-premium certainly has a niche market, but that is what it is... A niche.

[Josh]

Not everyone likes 20 year old Pappy Van Winkle. Those that do not like it, dislike heavily wooded bourbons. Most distillers believe that bourbon peaks in 6 to 8 years. Why risk losing so much volume in 20 years and result in an expensive bourbon that may not be popular? Also, if you are currently selling all of the bourbon you produce, why take up space for another 12 to 14 years with something that may be undrinkable or at best, appeal to a smaller group?

Frankly, if someone were to offer me my choice OF Signature, OGD 114, VOBBIB, EWBIB, and Pappy 20, I'd probably pick each one 20% of the time. Even if at the same price point. I would just say, don't read too much into increased aging. Like WIG posted earlier, it's just one part of the total picture. And can in fact, degrade a whiskey, rather than help it.

Any bourbon has the potential to taste great at 20 years and, similarly, any bourbon has the potential to taste awful at that age. There are things you can do, as the producer, to improve the odds, mostly by aging selected barrels in a low, interior part of the warehouse where they will tend to age slowly. But even doing that, it's hit or miss. Very old bourbon, even the best examples, isn't for everyone, and some of the very old product on the market isn't very good.

What they all said.

I agree that it would be nice to see versions of some low or mid-shef bourbons and ryes at double-digit ages (like Old Forester, Old Grand-dad, VOB). But some of my least favorite premium whiskeys are those in the 16+ yr range. Not a fan of the Pappy 20, 23, Eagle Rare 17, Sazerac 18, KBD's Vintage line or even the 4R Single Barrel 100th anniversary bottle. Elijah Craig 18 is the only one in that age range I can really say that I like, and even those are hit or miss. The Van Winkle Rye is very good too, but it's not something I can drink all the time and its stated age is only 13 so we can't rule out some 13 y/o stuff in the mix.

Anyway, I would love to see more creativity on the part of some distillers, but older is only better up to a point, that point usually being 15 yrs.