Rittenhouse DSPKY354 on its way out

[jburlowski]

Had a chance to taste some DSP-1 rye at 3y 6m. Still too young for prime time. Based on my limited experience, the jury is still out.

[cowdery]

Dang straight, he's the man. Just ask Melanie Safka.

Nothing was ever proved and, it being the seventies, I have no memory of it.

[cowdery]

I have a little bit of information about the Rittenhouse Rye made at DSP-KY-354. When Heaven Hill stopped buying it, Brown-Forman stopped making it. Both sides have confirmed to me that the Rittenhouse Rye made at 354 was Heaven Hill's yeast and mash bill. When Brown-Forman stopped making it at 354, HH started making it at DSP-KY-1. The point is that the 354-made edition of that recipe is no longer being made. All of the Rittenhouse Rye available now (except the very-olds) is DSP-KY-354. Theoretically, its successor will be the same, but it is a different distillery and distiller.

If Brown-Forman should happen to launch a rye sometime in the future it will not be that rye, i.e., Rittenhouse.

[ethangsmith]

So that begs the questions:

1. When did HH start rye production at Bernhem?
2. Did BF stop rye production at the same time, and if not, when?
3. Is Pikesville, at 3 years old, already Bernheim rye?
4. And the million dollar question- When do we see DSP-KY-1 Rittenhouse hit the shelves?

I'm sure not all of these questions are answerable at the present time, but I would be interested to hear of any of the KNOWN information regarding the switch over. I'm really looking forward to the Bernheim-produced ryes. I think they'll be just as good, if not better that what we have now. When it's all done in-house, I would think the surveillance and control of the product would be even greater. Although I always could be wrong- I hope not!

[MauiSon]

Noobie question: I don't understand all this focus on distillery source. Isn't cooperage of much greater consequence? Everyone seems to infer the distillery is a paramount consideration, but the flavor is mostly derived from the cooperage. Is that a 'dirty little secret' or is it rarely discussed because less is known about it? I'm not suggesting mashbill, yeast and distilling processes aren't important, but the wood (and aging process) is mostly what I'm tasting in bourbon (and probably rye) and I would imagine mostly what produces a poor or superior result.

Sorry to say, I've yet to see a bottle of Rittenhouse Rye offline.

[ChainWhip]

They're all factors that contribute to the final product no? I'm a noob too but when I look at how many recipes 4Roses uses and how different they all are, it provides an interesting study on the effects of yeast/mashbill on taste. What percentage/weight does yeast or mashbill account for its effect on taste in the final product versus cooperage? I don't know.

Of course, I'm assuming 4Roses barreling is relatively consistent.

[MauiSon]

Okay, how many different distilleries is 4 Roses using to produce those different yeast/mashbill combinations? I believe your observation is supporting my position, not contradicting it. Every distillery can vary it's yeast and mashbill, but this focus on source distillery is independent of those considerations - else why question if the product from a different distillery, using the same yeast/mashbill will be different?

[p_elliott]

MauiSon

It would be very difficult to exactly duplicate a whisk(e)y in a different distillery even though you were using the same mash bill and yeast. Every thing is just going to work a little differently. The grain grinders are not going to grind the grain to exactly the same consistency, the still is not going to be exactly the same, one distillery may have cypress fermenters while the other has stainless steel, the warehouses are different and in different locations, etc. Does this make sense ?

Paul

[Young Blacksmith]

Right, even just the piping going from fermenters to still to barreling location will change the way it comes out.

[MauiSon]

It would surprise me to learn that a distiller couldn't manage to adjust variables to duplicate raw product - just look at the range of production at the multi-label distillers and the advances in modern distilling sciences. Cooperage and storage are an entirely different issue from distillery production, i.e., a distillery's production is often stored in different makes of barrels and different warehouses, even competitor's warehouses. I don't understand why you would suggest that the distillery, rather than the raw product buyer/owner, decides cooperage and storage (the aging aspects) of the product. Bottom line - I believe those aging aspects far outweigh any aspect added or subtracted due to distillery limitations (inability to duplicate white dog).

Sorry if this line of discussion constitutes a hijacking.