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  1. #1
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    Two halves that make a mighty tasty whole: Bulleit Rye and Old Potrero 19th Century

    I've found that a mixture of half Bulleit Rye and half Old Potrero 19th Century (the one aged in charred, not toasted, barrels) is really tasty. The Potrero's strength still shines through, but it tames a bit of the mintier elements of the Bulleit. I'll bet some fine-tuning of percentages would lead to something better, but I'm happily enjoying this as is.

    I'd describe it almost as "Ryerish Pot Still", except of course Bulleit comes from column stills. I wonder if anyone's thought of making a rye whiskey from a mash of malted and unmalted rye? (or if LDI might ever consider going back to 5% malted rye instead of malted barley in their mash...)

  2. #2
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    I believe High West's OMG Rye is a blend of malted and unmalted rye, as was the style of nineteenth century Pennsylvania ryes, but it is only currently available as an unaged white whiskey.

  3. #3
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    Re: Two halves that make a mighty tasty whole: Bulleit Rye and Old Potrero 19th Centu

    I have made some malted rye with unmalted rye, it is a pain in the rear end. Rye malt lacks beta glucanase and that stuff gums up like elmers glue. So we use barley malt. Frankly I can not tell any difference in the taste. Just 5 percent barley malt will work better than 20 percent malted rye. And I am pretty sure that the rye that Woodford has out is malted and unmalted rye.

  4. #4
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    Re: Two halves that make a mighty tasty whole: Bulleit Rye and Old Potrero 19th Centu

    Quote Originally Posted by sku View Post
    I believe High West's OMG Rye is a blend of malted and unmalted rye, as was the style of nineteenth century Pennsylvania ryes, but it is only currently available as an unaged white whiskey.
    Yep, you're right. 20% malted, to be precise. We also use three unique yeast strains in the ferments to give a bit more complexity.
    Mat Garretson
    HIGH WEST DISTILLERY

  5. #5
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    Re: Two halves that make a mighty tasty whole: Bulleit Rye and Old Potrero 19th Centu

    Quote Originally Posted by tmckenzie View Post
    I have made some malted rye with unmalted rye, it is a pain in the rear end. Rye malt lacks beta glucanase and that stuff gums up like elmers glue. So we use barley malt. Frankly I can not tell any difference in the taste. Just 5 percent barley malt will work better than 20 percent malted rye. And I am pretty sure that the rye that Woodford has out is malted and unmalted rye.
    I haven't seen anything about whether Woodford's is malted or unmalted, but I did read that Chris Morris strongly implied it was a pain in the nethers to work with.

    I liked Old Potrero's really sharp, fruity character, but that could of course be many things besides its malt content. Age, char, yeast, what have you. (I wonder what the aging conditions are like in California as opposed to Kentucky, Maryland, or Pennsylvania. How hot their summers are, and what effect the climate has on the whiskey in the red layer.)

  6. #6
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    Re: Two halves that make a mighty tasty whole: Bulleit Rye and Old Potrero 19th Centu

    Thinking back Chris told me it was rye and rye malt I am almost positve. They had hell with it foaming. As is the case with most heavy rye mashbills.

  7. #7
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    Re: Two halves that make a mighty tasty whole: Bulleit Rye and Old Potrero 19th Centu

    Given that some distillers, like Alberta Distillers, use high amounts of rye in their mashes, even 100%, they must have found a way to cope with foaming problems. I've read that since relatively little rye is used by U.S. whiskey distillers, they really had no incentive to master (technically) these foaming problems and simply adjusted corn systems to inefficient operation levels to deal with it. I am not sure what that explanation really meant or if it is still relevant today.

    In Western Canada where distilleries use large amounts of rye in their process, foaming and viscosity evidently are not a problem.

    In 1800's sources I've read, the minority grain in a rye mash was always barley malt. Rye malt's industrial use seems to have been a circa-1900 innovation, and I recall a long time ago we talked here (I believe) about Montreal malted rye. It was a process developed apparently in Canada so malted rye could be used in a whiskey mash. You can find old ads for whisky made from Montreal malted rye, a google books search will show this.


    Gary
    Last edited by Gillman; 04-30-2012 at 12:01.

  8. #8
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    Re: Two halves that make a mighty tasty whole: Bulleit Rye and Old Potrero 19th Centu

    This quotation about foaming, from a different source than was alluded to in my previous note, may be the answer: either anti-foaming agents (type not specified) can be used, or, fermenters are not be filled to capacity when foaming occurs. As the writer notes, foaming is sporadic, and e.g., seems to occur more frequently with new harvested rye. He notes too that wheat and even barley can cause the same problem.

    http://books.google.ca/books?id=rkcO...20mash&f=false

    I think the inefficiencies the other writer referred to probably is this reduced use of full fermenter capacity when you mash with rye. It was (is still?) a price worth paying, I infer, when use of rye in your mashing overall was quite small.

    Gary

  9. #9
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    Re: Two halves that make a mighty tasty whole: Bulleit Rye and Old Potrero 19th Centu

    And look now here:

    http://books.google.ca/books?id=V4Ig...oaming&f=false

    This suggests that simply making rye the minority grain eliminates foaming.

    This is probably the true explanation why many (not all) straight ryes in the U.S. are "legal ryes", i.e., it's not because of flavor. Although, perhaps they kill two birds with one stone. I'd further inf think that due to the relatively high rye content of such legal ryes, in some cases at any rate it may be necessary to accept that fermenters will remain partly full in order to contain foaming (i.e. they are underutilized, thus not being run at full efficiency). This would be considered acceptable since rye whiskey is such a tiny part of straight whiskey production.

    Whereas in Canada, somehow they found a way (anti-foaming agents?) to ensure full fermenter capacity, i.e., for high-rye mashes.

    I stress: all the above is my thinking and inference from what I've been reading on this over lunch, it's not intended to state actual fact.

    Gary
    Last edited by Gillman; 04-30-2012 at 12:25.

  10. #10
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    Re: Two halves that make a mighty tasty whole: Bulleit Rye and Old Potrero 19th Centu

    Quote Originally Posted by Gillman View Post
    Given that some distillers, like Alberta Distillers, use high amounts of rye in their mashes, even 100%, they must have found a way to cope with foaming problems.
    During an exchange (one phone conversation, several E-Mails) with Rob Tuer of Alberta Springs I learned that they don't use rye malt, instead relying on an in-house-developed enzyme.


    The vatting of 19th Cent Style OP and Bulleit rye interests me because I'm planing some blending experiments to approach (if not fully match) the flavor profile of some pre-pro rye I recently acquired (Large Distillery Monongahela BiB, distilled 1914, bottled 1918)(no I can't get anymore, so don't ask). It's my understanding that these were mostly rye with the balance being barley malt, typically 15-25% of the latter.

    One would think that all I'd need is the Bulleit and some unpeated malt whiskey (I have some 10yo Glengoyne that I plan to use); however the Large is intensely fruity and I suspect I'll need something to boost that component. I'll be in California in June and hope to pick up some OP while there (it's not sold in OR).
    Scott

    "Remember that your sense of humor is inversely proportional to your level of intolerance."
    - Serge Storms

 

 

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