All your Van Winkle questions answered

[politely]

Well, I'm not a birther and I appreciate the disclosure, but I like honesty about what I'm drinking. There's been a lot of confusion, and frankly, it seems to me it could have been (and is) easily preventable. Also, with the recent prices of the PVW's, particularly the 23, I think it's a bit disingenuous to say that provenance doesn't matter. The rarity clearly plays a role in how much people are willing to pay. For example, imagine a single malt for which the bottler isn't willing to confirm the distillery, or for that matter, any grand cru. While not entirely apples to apples, it surely makes a difference. Would I be willing to pay more for a highly regarded whisky irrespective of distiller? Yes. Does knowing the scarcity play a role in how much I'll pay, how much I'll buy and when I'll buy? Yes. And, to be clear, more specifically, would I be willing to pay more for SW juice, knowing that there will never be more? Yes.

[PaulO]

I don't mean for this to sound too cynical, but I think it will be great when it's all nothing but BT product, and much of the soap opera can end. Knowing it's from some of BT's better barrels, I would probably consider buying some ORVW, or Lot B, if it's available, and close to a reasonable retail price. I have in the past, purchased two bottles of ORVW 90, on different ocasions, at the same store. I have to say, the first bottle was much better. The second bottle was ok, but drier, and less flavor overall. It didn't inspire me to go on some big quest to find more. The funny thing is, I had the exact same experience with Weller 12. The Weller 12 I bought in Chicago a few years ago was some of my most favorite bourbon ever. The recent version I've tried is good, but not spectacular. I don't think it's my imagination. I could name several other brands that seem to have been more consistant, and others that are variable.

[timd]

The funny thing is, I had the exact same experience with Weller 12. The Weller 12 I bought in Chicago a few years ago was some of my most favorite bourbon ever. The recent version I've tried is good, but not spectacular. I don't think it's my imagination.

Did you buy it at Binny's? If so, it was likely a single-barrel store pick of the W12. They had one a few years back that was a-maz-ing.

Could easily explain the difference if that was your source.

[cowdery]

Are you a Van Winkle fan who is feeling put-out by facts you recently learned about the brand?

If so, please contact me by PM. I'd like to ask you a few questions for an article I'm doing.

[Brisko]

I'm told there will be an official announcement in a month or so, leading me to believe it will be September, but maybe sooner.

I also learned a new term, but I won't say where: "COLA troller."

Note that's "troller," as in "to fish by trailing a baited line from behind a slowly moving boat," and not "troll," as in "an ogre who lives under a bridge."

Even that might be overstating it a bit. More like (in this case, anyway) "bored at work and looking at the recent COLAs out of idle curiosity."

[clingman71]

Are you a Van Winkle fan who is feeling put-out by facts you recently learned about the brand?

If so, please contact me by PM. I'd like to ask you a few questions for an article I'm doing.

What if you're put out by the work that buying it has become? What was once an hour drive to CnB with VW on the shelf at reasonable prices has become a time consuming process to acquire one or two bottles at 2-3X the cost. It would be easier to stop if it weren't so damn tasty.

[cowdery]

What if you're put out by the work that buying it has become? What was once an hour drive to CnB with VW on the shelf at reasonable prices has become a time consuming process to acquire one or two bottles at 2-3X the cost. It would be easier to stop if it weren't so damn tasty.

I'm happy to hear about any dissatisfaction anyone has with the Van Winkles themselves or the Van Winkle brand. Either PM me or post it here.

[PaulO]

Did you buy it at Binny's? If so, it was likely a single-barrel store pick of the W12. They had one a few years back that was a-maz-ing.

Could easily explain the difference if that was your source.

Yes, I bought it at Binny's. That could explain it.

[clingman71]

I'm happy to hear about any dissatisfaction anyone has with the Van Winkles themselves or the Van Winkle brand. Either PM me or post it here.

I have no dissatisfaction with either, just being grumpy about availability, or lack thereof, even Old Rip. The product is wonderful, no matter the source, and they have always been quick and gracious in replying to emails.

[BarrelChar]

Chuck wrote half an article.

Where is the interview with BT's Master Distiller, Harlen Wheatley? Nowhere to be found. Instead it's another "take the Van Winkles at their word" puff piece. Sure, it contains some useful information (the Bernheim blending finally being confirmed), but it's not exactly investigative journalism.

Remember, this story broke when two SB members were told directly by Harlen that the PVW 20 was mostly BT juice and and 23 was a mix too. He also said the Van Winkle Rye was BT and not the tanked Medley/CoK. These statements directly contradicted previous statements by the Van Winkles on this forum and in interviews. When asked about it, they released ambiguous statements until Sku (RecentEats Blog) finally asked them for clarification.

Are we supposed to be shocked that the Van Winkles are sticking to their story yet again? Did we expect them to say, "Yeah, we've been manipulating enthusiasts, but now we need to clear our conscience! OK, here goes, Chuck!"

A proper story would try to get the other side too. But nobody has ever bothered to ask Harlen why he made those statements, or talk to other BT insiders about his contentions (like BT contract distilling wheated juice since the early 1980s that's been used for years by the VWs). Or ask other distillers in Kentucky what they know. It's a small community, I'm sure the industry folks have some insight.

Yes, we get it. It's still good bourbon, no matter the origins. And frankly, I think the ultra-aged Bernheim wheated juice from 1993 onward is often better than the SW counterpart. That's not the point.

Instead, this latest chapter is just more of that "nothing to see here, move along" type of attitude, and anyone who dares to remain skeptical is met with incredulity and slurred as a "birther" by the SB peanut gallery. And the author, who has loudly extolled the virtues of clarifying a bourbon's origins and bashed KBD/Willett and others for not doing so, once again cuts the Van Winkles an immense amount of slack.

Extremely disappointing.