Barrel Wood...toasting, barrel heads and kiln drying.

[p_elliott]

Remember Independent Stave has two factories one in Lebanon KY and one in Lebanon MO I think the one in MO is their headquarters. I was just repeating what I was told in KY. What they do in MO I have no idea. If you got information off their web site you got it off the web site for the factory in MO. I had a heck of a time finding the factory in KY to find tour times on the web and that was about all I found.

[T Comp]

I have not had any of them toasted, I had thought about it, but I read somewhere they did not start toasting until the 90's, if that is the case, I think it is one of the things that helped to change the taste of bourbon. I may try some to see.

Now we're getting somewhere. Possibly another piece in the puzzle. We know from Ken Weber's 2004 comment that BT chose the toasting of the barrels, and this is not a knock on BT as they put out great whiskey, but their house taste profile is towards the more modern...green fruit, caramel and softer versus the darker fruits, chewier and rummy taste of old.

[Gillman]

But wouldn't the charring blast out any effect of the (lower-temperature) toasting?

Presumably not since, why would they do it, but still it seems odd to me.

Gary

[proof and age]

Toasting occurs as the barrel is being constructed I think, having seen the process up close. Heat in the center of the forming barrel with water applied to bend the wood to form the bilge. Heat, water, pressure is the only way to bend the wood.

[T Comp]

Toasting occurs as the barrel is being constructed I think, having seen the process up close. Heat in the center of the forming barrel with water applied to bend the wood to form the bilge. Heat, water, pressure is the only way to bend the wood.

I don't think so. That would make every barrel toasted but Tom just told us he's ordering barrels from Independent Stave not toasted. I just watched an Independent Stave video which does show a barrel being toasted (at about the half way mark). The staves are protected from direct contact with the flame. They must have a separate apparatus for the toasting of the heads. I remember too that it is important when wine barrels are toasted that no wood is blistered from it. http://www.independentstavecompany.com/

Gary's point on charring and toasting seems logical but it must make a difference as Ken Weber noted. Must have an effect on the barrel juice that gets past the char level. I saw a video of Brown-Forman/Jack Daniels touting the toasting process their barrels undergo first too.

[tmckenzie]

I don't think so. That would make every barrel toasted but Tom just told us he's ordering barrels from Independent Stave not toasted. I just watched an Independent Stave video which does show a barrel being toasted (at about the half way mark). The staves are protected from direct contact with the flame. They must have a separate apparatus for the toasting of the heads. I remember too that it is important when wine barrels are toasted that no wood is blistered from it. http://www.independentstavecompany.com/

Gary's point on charring and toasting seems logical but it must make a difference as Ken Weber noted. Must have an effect on the barrel juice that gets past the char level. I saw a video of Brown-Forman/Jack Daniels touting the toasting process their barrels undergo first too.

We do not do business with indepdent stave. The only way they offer 36 month is toasted, no char. We go through Mcginnis in Missouri. I am pretty sure IS reserves all of their 36 month stuff for wine barrels.

[proof and age]

The unbent staves are positioned over a burning flame, usually scraps and remnants from the heads as they are rounded in the smaller operations. This is accompanied by water on the outside and cable applied pressure to secure temporary steel hoops around as the barrel is formed, later to be replaced by permanent hoops.
I would believe that it would be impossible to construct a barrel without some toasting on the interior. To have a completely untoasted barrel would require lathing out the toasted layer. Could that be the case?

[Gillman]

I have heard staves can be bent using steam or very hot water, and this is a current way to make them pliable. This would not toast the barrels I believe.

Maybe this is why toasted barrels are provided, i.e. to supply the want of a light toast and its taste impact resulting from abandonment of bending staves through heating on a fire of oak waste.

Gary

[p_elliott]

Next time you're in Bardstown go tour Independent Stave it's only about 30 miles away.

[T Comp]

Next time you're in Bardstown go tour Independent Stave it's only about 30 miles away.

Been there, done that and even really did get the t-shirt Paul . Unfortunately it was a long day and I wasn't paying attention to all the little details that I'm now interested in about seasoning, toasting and how its changed to today's practices. May need to do a return visit and another t-shirt .