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  1. #21
    Connoisseur
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    Re: Widow Jane Kentucky Bourbon

    I wonder why, then, on the "5 year" link on the Widow Jane/Cacao Prieta website, they also say this:

    "Cacao Prieto Distillery is proud to announce the very limited release of an extraordinary 5 year Bourbon Whiskey. Only 1,500 bottles have been produced of the Widow Jane unfiltered 5 year old Kentucky Bourbon, and each bottle is hand labeled and hand numbered, creating a unique package."

    Is this the same 5-year-old bourbon that had the production run of "only 823 bottles"? Wonder which it is...

    I'm sure they're good people, and I love rum and chocolate, but I think the website might need a little work.

    I think people are reacting to the gimmick of a little-known craft distiller (of non-whiskey spirits) buying bourbon from a Kentucky distiller and filling it into a bottle with an unusual label and name, and basing their marketing on the limestone-mine-sourced water used to cut the product. Small producers with "gimmick" marketing can turn $15/btl whiskey into $55/btl in the blink of an eye... and the Kentucky producers probably aren't selling their best whiskey to the wholesale market...

    Of course, one of our favorite bottlers of rye whiskey around here is High West, who "sources" all kinds of ryes and bourbons from elsewhere, and bottles these whiskies (and mixtures of whiskies) in some pretty bottles with eye-catching labels, and sells some of them at eye-popping prices. People here buy the products, sing their praises, and recommend them to others. Strange, huh?

  2. #22
    Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalessin View Post
    I wonder why, then, on the "5 year" link on the Widow Jane/Cacao Prieta website, they also say this:

    "Cacao Prieto Distillery is proud to announce the very limited release of an extraordinary 5 year Bourbon Whiskey. Only 1,500 bottles have been produced of the Widow Jane unfiltered 5 year old Kentucky Bourbon, and each bottle is hand labeled and hand numbered, creating a unique package."

    Is this the same 5-year-old bourbon that had the production run of "only 823 bottles"? Wonder which it is...

    I'm sure they're good people, and I love rum and chocolate, but I think the website might need a little work.

    I think people are reacting to the gimmick of a little-known craft distiller (of non-whiskey spirits) buying bourbon from a Kentucky distiller and filling it into a bottle with an unusual label and name, and basing their marketing on the limestone-mine-sourced water used to cut the product. Small producers with "gimmick" marketing can turn $15/btl whiskey into $55/btl in the blink of an eye... and the Kentucky producers probably aren't selling their best whiskey to the wholesale market...

    Of course, one of our favorite bottlers of rye whiskey around here is High West, who "sources" all kinds of ryes and bourbons from elsewhere, and bottles these whiskies (and mixtures of whiskies) in some pretty bottles with eye-catching labels, and sells some of them at eye-popping prices. People here buy the products, sing their praises, and recommend them to others. Strange, huh?
    High West is typically as open as possible with details of what goes into their bottles. Clearly that is not the case with this Widow Jane release.

    And mopgcw, how about an "hello" post or something in the new members forum before calling one of the more esteemed members here a "blowhard?" Your first post was an atypical one, for sure, and as such, Chuck calling it into question was hardly out of line. No one has any reason to give any credence to your first post; we know nothing about you or the whiskeys you've drunk or what you think of them.
    Jim

  3. #23
    Moderator
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    Re: Widow Jane Kentucky Bourbon

    Lets pull in the claws a bit people, I know as well as anyone how easy it is to let your emotions get the better of you. But lets not let this get out of hand.
    Normal is an illusion. What is normal to the spider, is chaos for the fly.

  4. #24
    Connoisseur
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    Lexington, MA
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    Re: Widow Jane Kentucky Bourbon

    Quote Originally Posted by HighInTheMtns View Post
    High West is typically as open as possible with details of what goes into their bottles. Clearly that is not the case with this Widow Jane release.
    Aside from not naming the distiller, the Cacao Prieta people talk about the origin of the whiskey (Kentucky, rather than their own still) and the water (Widow Jane limestone mine in NY) all over their bottle labels, website, press releases, liquor store websites, etc. High West might be open about who produces their juice when someone asks, but like Cacao Prieta, they don't put that information on the label, into press releases, on their website, etc.

    The discrepancy in number of Widow Jane bottles produced (1500 on one page on their site, 823 absolutely everywhere else) looks more like bad web content authoring than anything else, I just thought it was amusing.

    I'm not sure how naming the producer of the bourbon would help the Widow Jane brand, especially because they seem to be basing their branding on the concept that it's "all about the water". Which may seem backwards to us, but look at all the advertising messaging from beer producers talking about their special water!
    Last edited by Kalessin; 11-15-2012 at 09:59.

  5. #25
    Guru
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    2,409

    Re: Widow Jane Kentucky Bourbon

    It is a bit of a curiosity. The bottle certainly says "Kentucky Bourbon". Not sure if it says somewhere in fine print that it was distilled in Kentucky although I would guess not.

    This website doesn't appear to claim it is distilled in Brooklyn. Of course neither does it say it was distilled in Kentucky or by whom, not that the latter was really expected.

    But the direct widowjanewhiskey.com website did say that it was distilled in Brooklyn. Red Hook to be exact! Or at least it did last night when I looked at it. Doesn't appear to be working at the moment for me. That would be poor editing at best and complete deception at worst to me.

    Not that it matters much to me personally. Wouldn't turn down a free pour but not planning to go out of my way to look for this.
    That yella whiskey runnin' down my throat like honey dew vine water and I took another slash…

    Nullum Gratuitum Prandium
    Ne Illegitimi Carborundum

  6. #26
    Connoisseur
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    Re: Widow Jane Kentucky Bourbon

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalessin View Post
    I'm not sure how naming the producer of the bourbon would help the Widow Jane brand, especially because they seem to be basing their branding on the concept that it's "all about the water". Which may seem backwards to us, but look at all the advertising messaging from beer producers talking about their special water!
    Scotch and Bourbon producers generally make a big deal about their water sources, too, so that's nothing new and certainly doesn't seem 'backwards'.

  7. #27
    Bourbonian Of The Year 2013 and Guru
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    Re: Widow Jane Kentucky Bourbon

    Maui, I think Kalessin is referring to the fact that they are promoting the "cutting to proof" with the special water, as being backwards to enthusiasts like us. As enthusiasts, I think, we would be more concerned with how the barrel strength whiskey is before cutting. If this is in fact what K was referring to, I am thinking along those lines as well. If not, I am alone on my island, yet again!
    JOE

    Wag more.
    Bark less.

    "Every bottle is its own learning experience." -- Sensei Ox-sama

  8. #28
    Bourbonian of the Year 2002 and Guru
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    Re: Widow Jane Kentucky Bourbon

    Hell, 'blowhard' is one one the nicer things I've been called. No loss of lung function here.

    As for Widow Jane, this is the typical crap we see all the time. We saw it from High West too until they wised up. Somebody comes out of nowhere with a fully-aged bourbon and, playing on the general ignorance of the public, does everything they can short of outright lying to make people think it's something it's not. Even to the point of saying the whiskey is 'made' with water from this mine (and, I might add, mines are not generally touted for their water quality) when, of course, it is only diluted to proof with that water, whereas the average person thinks 'made' means 'distilled.' It's funny that they actually say it's distilled by them in Brooklyn when their label clearly says 'Kentucky.' Could it actually be a subtle parody?

    The photography, by the way, is very nice -- but here are the pretty pictures of the still on which the whiskey was not made, and the pretty pictures of the barrels that may or may not have anything to do with the current product (since bulk whiskey is usually delivered in plastic or stainless steel containers), all labeled with the name of the distillery that didn't make it.

    It's just sad when the best defense people can come up with is general incompetence. It's not incompetence, it's a ham-handed effort to deceive, and that's what sticks in my craw and make me, yes, crotchety. I understand that it's awkward to promote yourself as a distiller and simultaneously promote a product you just bought and bottled, but I can't endorse deception as the solution.

    Conjecture that a new poster praising an obscure product is a shill is pretty understandable, especially since it happens here all the time. Perfectly innocent non-shills who find themselves so accused usually laugh it off, retroactively make the introductions (there's a whole section for that) and become part of the community. Shills who have been found out typically get their backs up, then disappear.

    We've had so many of these overpriced, nothing special non-distiller producer bottlings that we're bored with them. I won't shut up about it. I also refuse to kiss the ass of every ill-mannered newbie who shows up here and I refuse to apologize for it.
    Last edited by cowdery; 11-15-2012 at 14:24.

  9. #29
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    Re: Widow Jane Kentucky Bourbon

    I find this all relatively interesting. Seems like if there is this much confusion we should go to the source. Not sure if anyone else has but I went ahead and contacted the company for more info. I alerted them to some of the questions/concerns in the thread and invited them to come check it out and provide any info they might have.

  10. #30
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    Re: Widow Jane Kentucky Bourbon

    Quote Originally Posted by RVTsteve View Post
    I find this all relatively interesting. Seems like if there is this much confusion we should go to the source. Not sure if anyone else has but I went ahead and contacted the company for more info. I alerted them to some of the questions/concerns in the thread and invited them to come check it out and provide any info they might have.
    I like you giving it the old college try, but they'll probably say, "we can't tell you due to a contract." Which also a BS dodge.

 

 

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