Independent bottles and what they bottle.

[Meruck]

As we all know independent bottlers put many a varied beverage. Some proudly state what's in the bottles other "protest to much".

The question here is what actual distilleries sell to independents. Heaven Hill, as I understand it is the largest purveyor of barrels to the independents.

Who else sells to them? Does BT? Who else?

[squire]

David Perkins at High West said he has worked with Jim Rutledge at Four Roses to source whisky, Drew Kulsveen at KBD told an interviewer he buys from a number of sources, we don't know much more than what such tidbits imply.

[LostBottle]

High West has been very transparent about where their stuff came from, unlike KBD. The High West 21 and 16 are Barton ryes and the 12 was 5 Seagrams/LDI/MGP barrels that couldn't fit on a ship headed to Japan. Their younger 6yo stuff is MGP. When it's ready, I am looking forward to tasting the stuff High West has been busy distilling - I bet it will be tasty.

It is thought the KBD bottled Vintage 21/23 Rye, Hirsch 21/22/25, Black Maple Hill 23, Willett 22, Rathskeller, Bitter Truth, LeNells were all Medley juice. The younger Willett Ryes are MGP.

[Meruck]

I think it's interesting to be able to find juice you like with a different label although likely at a higher price, but maybe not. I know from reading other posts Col. Chuck does not like trying to guess whose selling what to who to put in what bottle. But I like looking or gems in wolfs clothing.

Does BT sell to independents that we know of?

[MyOldKyDram]

Yup. Trader Joes has a bourbon that is from BT/Barton.

[Tucker]

Costco = Beam, IIRC.

[Brisko]

A couple points.

1.)To paraphrase one of our members (Cowdery)-- nobody sells bulk whiskey except for when they do.
2.)Another member (wadewood, if memory serves) has stated that KBD has bought barrels from every major producer except one. (I have a pretty good idea which one that is, too).

Distilleries sell off barrels for a lot of reasons. Inventory adjustments, over-aged juice, juice that doesn't meet profile, etc. I believe that the market is probably smaller at the moment, given that pretty much everybody's supplies are tight, but it's still there. Also keep in mind the distinction between stock that's made under contract versus stock that's dumped on the spot market.

Assume that they all do it.

[Smithford]

Actually, the best quote on SB.com on this subject came from AaronWF:

The disassociation between label and provenance makes these matters more urgent and frustrating, because it takes so much energy to learn only half-truths.

.sig worthy, really

[squire]

I want the whole truth or they can keep it.

[cowdery]

I've never heard of Maker's Mark selling any bulk. Everyone else has. Some make the distinction between selling bulk as part of their everyday business (Heaven Hill, MGPI) and selling bulk only to adjust inventories (everybody else). Not sure I necessarily believe "everybody else," but that's their story. I think there are also offers too good to refuse.