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  1. #1
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    Finished Bourbon vs Mixing

    I was reading a review on Angel Envy's new Rye finished in rum barrel whiskey (Jason Pyle's Sour mash Manifesto). Reading the tasting notes basically made it seem like all the finish really did was impart (too much) rum flavor.

    So I began to think about what finishing really does.

    Obviously, whatever flavor was in the cask is going to mix with whatever is then added to it. I get that. But, because it's only ever in these barrels for a few months (although in this case a year and a half), I wonder if oak (if oak was used) really plays a significant influence? If it doesn't; why bother with the additional aging? So you can still call it bourbon; because technically it was left in a charred oak barrel? The rum barrel that was used in this instance had come from cognac. So we don't know how "used" the barrel was before it aged rum , so I doubt there is much wood sugar or char left to influence the "finished" bourbon. To top it all off, the LDI rye used has no age statement. We know it at least aged 1 1/2 years but how old was it before that? New make, two years, four years? Based on the tasting notes from Jason, I'm going to go with new make because the rye influence is practically taken over by rum.

    I want answers because many of these bourbons or whiskeys come in at WAY beyond their price point. 70 bux for Angel's Envy? Madness. I got Parker's Heritage Collection Cognac finished for 67 dollars. By far a better product. I mean really, what would be the difference if I took Rittenhouse Rye and mixed it with Meyers Dark Rum, maybe even a splash of cognac. It would still be cheaper than Angel's Envy.
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  2. #2
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    Re: Finished Bourbon vs Mixing

    Sounds like an interesting experiment! When they extract the whiskey from the spent barrels (ie - Devil's Cut), it is a bit more woody - so the rum might be a bit different from just taking a splash from the bottle. I do agree that Angel's Envy is very proud of their stuff (and while it ain't bad, there are too many products out there that hit my wheelhouse better for that kinda money).
    Gary
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    "Too much of anything is bad, but too much of good whiskey is barely enough." - Mark Twain
    "Because Whiskey Matters!" - David Perkins

  3. #3
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    Re: Finished Bourbon vs Mixing

    While I have no definitive proof I have been told by the Henderson's that the AE bourbon is generally in the 4-6yo range before finishing occurs. Whether this is true of the MGP rye in the AE Rye I can't say. It doesn't taste like it is exceedingly young to me. I feel like I can taste more maturity in the rye than that or else I would expect the tangy new make taste of the rye would likely cut through the rum finish more than it does. But my palate is hardly an extensively experienced one so that may be just my perception.

    But I will take my chances with Lincoln Henderson's palate as my guide. And perhaps my interest in finished whiskeys makes me more inclined to like it and put it in my wheelhouse. Would I like it to cost less? Sure! So I will instead drink a little less of it at the current price point than I might otherwise. But I plan to keep drinking it all the same.
    That yella whiskey runnin' down my throat like honey dew vine water and I took another slash…

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  4. #4
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    Re: Finished Bourbon vs Mixing

    Thanks tanstaafl2 for the background info.

    In case anyone wondered, I did mix a bit of Meyer's Dark Rum with Rittenhouse Rye. It was very tasty. I thinking about finding a perfect blend ratio and making it a new drink
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  5. #5

    Finished Bourbon vs Mixing

    I really liked the vatting of V21 and Zaya I did the other night, the flavors mingled well. I am going to try a few more combos tonight to see how well the Zaya mixes with other ryes

  6. #6
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    Finished Bourbon vs Mixing

    Quote Originally Posted by Bmac View Post
    I want answers because many of these bourbons or whiskeys come in at WAY beyond their price point. 70 bux for Angel's Envy? Madness. I got Parker's Heritage Collection Cognac finished for 67 dollars. By far a better product.
    It sounds like you haven't tried Angel's Envy Rye. In your quest for answers sometimes trying the product is the best way to get them. Anyone expecting it to taste like a straight rye will probably be disappointed, but it is a tasty whiskey regardless. I would venture to say the rye that was used is far from new make or even 1.5 years old...

  7. #7
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    Re: Finished Bourbon vs Mixing

    Quote Originally Posted by nblair View Post
    It sounds like you haven't tried Angel's Envy Rye. In your quest for answers sometimes trying the product is the best way to get them. Anyone expecting it to taste like a straight rye will probably be disappointed, but it is a tasty whiskey regardless. I would venture to say the rye that was used is far from new make or even 1.5 years old...
    I would happily try a sample. 70 bux right now is far too much for me at present moment. That's two dinners, or 2 tanks of gas, or 1/3 groceries or 2 bottles of Willett Rye at cask strength. It's like Garrison Brothers. I get what they are trying to do, and I don't fault anyone for trying to make a buck; but I don't like being gauged. It's like they fluffed up a basic product and tried to say it was special so pay a special price.

    Who knows, maybe one day when/if it goes on sale I will pull the trigger....

    Although my question about finishing in other casks wasn't answered.
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  8. #8
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    Re: Finished Bourbon vs Mixing

    Quote Originally Posted by tanstaafl2 View Post
    While I have no definitive proof I have been told by the Henderson's that the AE bourbon is generally in the 4-6yo range before finishing occurs. Whether this is true of the MGP rye in the AE Rye I can't say. It doesn't taste like it is exceedingly young to me. I feel like I can taste more maturity in the rye than that or else I would expect the tangy new make taste of the rye would likely cut through the rum finish more than it does. But my palate is hardly an extensively experienced one so that may be just my perception.

    But I will take my chances with Lincoln Henderson's palate as my guide. And perhaps my interest in finished whiskeys makes me more inclined to like it and put it in my wheelhouse. Would I like it to cost less? Sure! So I will instead drink a little less of it at the current price point than I might otherwise. But I plan to keep drinking it all the same.
    According to the fine folks at AE, the rye is 6 YO MPG which has then been aged an additional 18 months in rum casks which had previously been used for Cognac.

  9. #9
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    Re: Finished Bourbon vs Mixing

    Quote Originally Posted by Bmac View Post

    I want answers because many of these bourbons or whiskeys come in at WAY beyond their price point. 70 bux for Angel's Envy? Madness. I got Parker's Heritage Collection Cognac finished for 67 dollars. By far a better product. I mean really, what would be the difference if I took Rittenhouse Rye and mixed it with Meyers Dark Rum, maybe even a splash of cognac. It would still be cheaper than Angel's Envy.
    If you have not tasted AE rye, how can you make the determination that PHC Cognac is better ?

  10. #10
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    Re: Finished Bourbon vs Mixing

    I thought I was the only one who wondered about this. Thanks for starting this discussion Bmac. I am planning on doing som experiments. I will let you know how they turn out. Also interested in the new Beam flavored with Brandy.
    One whiskey for every ghost.

 

 

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