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  1. #691
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    Re: What rye are you drinking Fall 2013/Winter 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Gillman View Post
    Right, but Bruce, how do we know this particular whiskey was aged at MGPI in new charred barrels?

    Gary
    We don't know that the Canadian version is, but the US version most definitely is.
    My name is Joel Goodson. I deal in human fulfillment.
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  2. #692
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    Re: What rye are you drinking Fall 2013/Winter 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Gillman View Post
    Right, but Bruce, how do we know this particular whiskey was aged at MGPI in new charred barrels?

    Gary
    True enough I suppose. Since most rye products out of MGPI have been straight rye I suppose it is easy to presume it all is. But Dickel makes no mention being a straight rye on the bottle or the website and Chuck did not make it clear either in his blog post about it.

    So I suppose it could be something else intended as a blending rye since that is what Seagram's/LDI/MGPI used to do. I am inclined to think not but have no proof.
    That yella whiskey runnin' down my throat like honey dew vine water and I took another slash…

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  3. #693
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    Re: What rye are you drinking Fall 2013/Winter 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by callmeox View Post
    We don't know that the Canadian version is, but the US version most definitely is.
    Yes, certainly. I was referencing the Canadian "version" and did not realize initially (in other words) the U.S. label read differently. I set up another thread to discuss the separate Canadian one.

    Gary

  4. #694
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    Re: What rye are you drinking Fall 2013/Winter 2014

    Bruce, as Scott noted, the U.S. one would be aged in new charred barrels because the U.S. label states "rye whiskey" (albeit not straight rye whiskey, but I'd think it is at least 4 years old).

    Gary

  5. #695
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    Re: What rye are you drinking Fall 2013/Winter 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Gillman View Post
    Bruce, as Scott noted, the U.S. one would be aged in new charred barrels because the U.S. label states "rye whiskey" (albeit not straight rye whiskey, but I'd think it is at least 4 years old).

    Gary
    Ah, yes. I still mess that up on occasion thinking it would say straight rye whiskey rather than just rye whiskey. But the straight just means it is at least two years old and I guess there is no requirement to say straight on the bottle if you don't want to even if it qualifies.

    I agree it would quite surprising if it was less than 2 years old so I presume they just didn't want to say it was straight rye for what ever reason.
    That yella whiskey runnin' down my throat like honey dew vine water and I took another slash…

    Nullum Gratuitum Prandium
    Ne Illegitimi Carborundum

  6. #696
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    Re: What rye are you drinking Fall 2013/Winter 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Gillman View Post
    Bruce, as Scott noted, the U.S. one would be aged in new charred barrels because the U.S. label states "rye whiskey" (albeit not straight rye whiskey, but I'd think it is at least 4 years old).

    Gary
    Picking through the regs for no particular reason I came across the rules for straight whiskey (interestingly spelled "whisky").

    (iii) Whiskies conforming to the standards prescribed in paragraphs (b)(1)(i) and (ii) of this section, which have been stored in the type of oak containers prescribed, for a period of 2 years or more shall be further designated as “straight”; for example, “straight bourbon whisky”, “straight corn whisky”, and whisky conforming to the standards prescribed in paragraph (b)(1)(i) of this section, except that it was produced from a fermented mash of less than 51 percent of any one type of grain, and stored for a period of 2 years or more in charred new oak containers shall be designated merely as “straight whisky”. No other whiskies may be designated “straight”. “Straight whisky” includes mixtures of straight whiskies of the same type produced in the same State.

    http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx...3.25.2&idno=27


    Bold font is mine. Now not being a member of the fine legal fraternity I am a bit confused. "Shall" seems to imply to me that you "must" do so rather than saying you "may" do so. It doesn't sound like it is an option that can be used by the producer at their discretion. So is any 2+ year old whiskey that doesn't say "straight" on the label in violation of the regulation? Or does "shall" have some element of legal wiggle room that I am woefully ignorant of?

    If not then I know one shouldn't have much confidence in the TTB in terms of consistent application of their own regulations but if a spirit is at least 2 years old and NOT labeled as "straight" isn't this in violation of the regulations? Or is Dickel rye in fact less than 2 years old?

    I am more curious than anything else. Or at least more confused...
    That yella whiskey runnin' down my throat like honey dew vine water and I took another slash…

    Nullum Gratuitum Prandium
    Ne Illegitimi Carborundum

  7. #697
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    Re: What rye are you drinking Fall 2013/Winter 2014

    Wikipedia references that same passage with the conclusion that the liquor MAY be called straight, but is not required to be. FWIW, since the internet never lies...

  8. #698
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    Re: What rye are you drinking Fall 2013/Winter 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by dcbt View Post
    Wikipedia references that same passage with the conclusion that the liquor MAY be called straight, but is not required to be. FWIW, since the internet never lies...
    Yeah, I saw that but I accord about the same level of certainty to Wiki as I do what the local distributor rep tells me!

    I presume it must be optional but it is rather confusing.
    That yella whiskey runnin' down my throat like honey dew vine water and I took another slash…

    Nullum Gratuitum Prandium
    Ne Illegitimi Carborundum

  9. #699
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    Re: What rye are you drinking Fall 2013/Winter 2014

    In legal lexicology the word 'shall' belongs to that group we call 'words of limitation'. When expressed in law or regulation the word shall means strict compliance with the provisions of the specific law or reg.

    Which means to label your product as a Straight it must meet all the legal requirements of a Straight. But you don't have to call your product straight even if it meets the requirements, that's just the highest designation. You can in fact use any of the lower descriptors such as whisky, American Whiskey, North American Whisky, Rye Mash Whisky, etc., if you so choose.
    We're Bourbon Geeks, it's who we are, it's what we do.

  10. #700
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    Re: What rye are you drinking Fall 2013/Winter 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by squire View Post
    In legal lexicology the word 'shall' belongs to that group we call 'words of limitation'. When expressed in law or regulation the word shall means strict compliance with the provisions of the specific law or reg.

    Which means to label your product as a Straight it must meet all the legal requirements of a Straight. But you don't have to call your product straight even if it meets the requirements, that's just the highest designation. You can in fact use any of the lower descriptors such as whisky, American Whiskey, North American Whisky, Rye Mash Whisky, etc., if you so choose.
    Thanks for the clarification.
    That yella whiskey runnin' down my throat like honey dew vine water and I took another slash…

    Nullum Gratuitum Prandium
    Ne Illegitimi Carborundum

 

 

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