Smooth Ambler Bourbons are not Four Roses. The connection is that both Four Roses and MGPI Indiana used to be owned by Seagrams. Although they have some of the same DNA, and the mash bills are similar, the whiskeys are very different. Smooth Ambler Old Scout is all MGPI Indiana, as the Smooth Ambler folks are happy to tell you.
When I visited them last summer during the power cut in the summer I was in their warehouse and took some photos. They told me that they sourced their casks at LDI. Which I don't doubt at ll. But when I got home I had a closer look at this photo
My personal theory is that Four Roses used the LDI warehouses to mature whiskey back in the Seagram's days. But thats my perosnal theory
This could be the only KY8 barrel there for all I know, it was a very hot day, so was kinda not paying too much attention to anything, but since I discovered this photo I pay a lot more attention when seeing barrels
Last edited by macdeffe; 10-26-2013 at 11:08.
Back when both were Seagrams, Four Roses sent bourbon to the Indiana plant for use in Seagram's Seven and other blends. This continued for some time after the sale to Kirin, so it's entirely possible some Four Roses-made bourbon has made its way to NDPs via LDI, and here I deliberately use the former name because LDI was selling anything and everything someone would buy just to keep the lights on. It's also known that Pernod, when it owned the Indiana plant, was the first to sell whiskey in their possession to NDPs. That's what got Templeton and High West going, but they were buying rye of course. My blanket statement was because I know the Smooth Ambler folks and if they had any Four Roses bourbon, I think they would have said so.
It is, however, likely they received the whiskey they bought in totes, not barrels, since shipping in barrels can be a little dicey and is only done if the purchaser intends to continue aging the spirit.
Four Roses still makes whiskey for Diageo, although most if not all of it goes into Bulleit Bourbon, and is aged at Stitzel-Weller. But Diageo is very secretive and who knows where they send things. The Jefferson's Presidential, for example, was made and aged at Stitzel-Weller, then shipped to Canada and had to be imported back to the U.S. for Jeffersons.
Last edited by cowdery; 10-26-2013 at 15:33.