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  1. #1
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    My 14 carat Pappy

    Well, I apologize in advance to those who will consider me a soulless creature for saying so, but I am not a person who can afford to pop $1,300 dollar bottles.
    So I was just wondering if any forumites have attempted to sell a bottle of 20 Yr Pappy, which, as I am sure everyone knows, is now worth that much in the aftermarket.

  2. #2
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    Re: My 14 carat Pappy

    If you have a bottle that you paid less than $1,300 for, then of course you can afford to pop that bad boy open!

    I have not tried to sell one, but my wife did a little perusing to try to find one for my birthday. She couldn't find any pappy, but she did end up finding a bottle of Glenfiddich 30 for half of the average current price. Does this mean I can't afford to open it, or that I can't afford not to open it?
    "Unless it survived a tornado, weathered a snow storm in Scotland, and then spent a year on boat before returning home, I'm not really interested."

  3. #3
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    Re: My 14 carat Pappy

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantum View Post
    If you have a bottle that you paid less than $1,300 for, then of course you can afford to pop that bad boy open!

    I have not tried to sell one, but my wife did a little perusing to try to find one for my birthday. She couldn't find any pappy, but she did end up finding a bottle of Glenfiddich 30 for half of the average current price. Does this mean I can't afford to open it, or that I can't afford not to open it?

    I can understand where you're coming from, but it's a bit different, if someone gives you a gift it would be rather dismissive to then turn around and sell it. You open it and enjoy it in the spirit it was given.

    On the other hand, my bottle was bought by me, also, I've had the opportunity to enjoy Pappy 20 a couple of years ago when my brother gave me a bottle for Christmas. So being that I've had the Pappy 20 and there are no gift or sentimental complications, it just comes down to whether or not there is over $1,000. dollars worth of enjoyment value in drinking the bottle or whether that $1,000. can deliver more usefulness and enjoyment elsewhere. Bottom line I can buy a bunch of fine bourbon and have a big wad of dollars left if I sell it; and the presumably well healed person I sell it to will get his or her money's worth in a rare experience that they can also share with fellow aficianodos.

  4. #4
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    Re: My 14 carat Pappy

    Quote Originally Posted by tmas View Post
    I can understand where you're coming from, but it's a bit different, if someone gives you a gift it would be rather dismissive to then turn around and sell it. You open it and enjoy it in the spirit it was given.

    On the other hand, my bottle was bought by me, also, I've had the opportunity to enjoy Pappy 20 a couple of years ago when my brother gave me a bottle for Christmas. So being that I've had the Pappy 20 and there are no gift or sentimental complications, it just comes down to whether or not there is over $1,000. dollars worth of enjoyment value in drinking the bottle or whether that $1,000. can deliver more usefulness and enjoyment elsewhere. Bottom line I can buy a bunch of fine bourbon and have a big wad of dollars left if I sell it; and the presumably well healed person I sell it to will get his or her money's worth in a rare experience that they can also share with fellow aficianodos.
    What i dont understand is where you think $1300 is something it normally goes for even secondary. I understand there are hundreds of listings ASKING insane prices, but not necessarly selling them. There is a bottle on NYC Craigslist right now fora 20yr at $650.....a 15 for $450 (and has been there for days) There is tons and tons of Pappy in NYC. Every shop jacked up their price and now have them on display like a fucking trophy.

    Sorry to sound heated under collar but it really seems like your looking to rip someone off and frankly if someone paid that much you WOULD be ripping a chump off (or well healed person as you called them)

    And lets not confuse aficianodos with jack ass with too much money who read an article titled "Bourbon even Millionaires cant Get" . People are entitled to spend their money how they want, that doesent absolve you from shitty action that is ripping someone off......no matter how lazy / ignorant / rich they are.
    Birth, School, Whisk(e)y, Death!

  5. #5
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    Re: My 14 carat Pappy

    Quote Originally Posted by tmas View Post
    I can understand where you're coming from, but it's a bit different, if someone gives you a gift it would be rather dismissive to then turn around and sell it. You open it and enjoy it in the spirit it was given.

    On the other hand, my bottle was bought by me, also, I've had the opportunity to enjoy Pappy 20 a couple of years ago when my brother gave me a bottle for Christmas. So being that I've had the Pappy 20 and there are no gift or sentimental complications, it just comes down to whether or not there is over $1,000. dollars worth of enjoyment value in drinking the bottle or whether that $1,000. can deliver more usefulness and enjoyment elsewhere. Bottom line I can buy a bunch of fine bourbon and have a big wad of dollars left if I sell it; and the presumably well healed person I sell it to will get his or her money's worth in a rare experience that they can also share with fellow aficianodos.
    I'm no expert but $1000 for 20? Seems a bit inflated even in this market but if you have some one lined up willing, why not? You are right that one could have many more bottles and still have some cash left over for that kind of coin.

  6. #6
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    Re: My 14 carat Pappy

    OP: you've been a member here since 2005. You should certainly know by now that discussion of black market pricing is not a topic that's smiled upon. C'mon man!

    If you haven't had any before, open it and drink it. You won't be any worse off for it than you were yesterday.
    Jim

  7. #7
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    Re: My 14 carat Pappy

    I have enjoyed many bottles of PVW 15 and 20 over the years and built up a stash long before the craze because I like what was in the bottle prior to 2010. Just because it is listed at $1300 does not mean it is selling at list price. No one is beating down my door with $1000+ offers, only the people who want to have it at $100. I'll enjoy it myself and share a taste with friends rather than let someone else get rich. tim

  8. #8
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    Re: My 14 carat Pappy

    Quote Originally Posted by BonVivant84 View Post
    What i dont understand is where you think $1300 is something it normally goes for even secondary. I understand there are hundreds of listings ASKING insane prices, but not necessarly selling them. There is a bottle on NYC Craigslist right now fora 20yr at $650.....a 15 for $450 (and has been there for days) There is tons and tons of Pappy in NYC. Every shop jacked up their price and now have them on display like a fucking trophy.

    Sorry to sound heated under collar but it really seems like your looking to rip someone off and frankly if someone paid that much you WOULD be ripping a chump off (or well healed person as you called them)

    And lets not confuse aficianodos with jack ass with too much money who read an article titled "Bourbon even Millionaires cant Get" . People are entitled to spend their money how they want, that doesent absolve you from shitty action that is ripping someone off......no matter how lazy / ignorant / rich they are.

    Whoa! I think you misunderstand me. The price I mentioned came from the latest article of Fortune Magazine which I received about 10 days ago. Before receiving the magazine I had no idea that "bourbon insanity" had reached the level it has, in the Fortune Article they mention up to $1,395. as the current aftermarket value of the Pappy 20. I mentioned it on SB to get some feedback (not to sell it through the site).

    As far as me ripping anyone off, if I did sell it I would simply want the average price that the market will bear. After all, don't most people sell something for it's market value? The most meaningful definition of value is " whatever someone is willing to pay" for something.

    I must say I don't agree with your opinion that someone buying Pappy 20 for big $ is a "chump" or a "jack ass". Everyone's means are different. Who 'am I to say that someone to whom $1,000+ is no big deal is a fool for doing with it as he or she prefers? I mean I personally can't afford to go in a restaurant and pay $2,000. for a bottle of Napa Cabernet, but plenty of folks do, because they can and they want to. Is Oprah Winfrey a jack ass when she buys a purse for $30,000? Hey it's her money, if she prefers to buy a purse for $30,000 rather than giving it to charity that's her choice and right and it doesn't make her a jack ass.

  9. #9
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    My 14 carat Pappy

    Quote Originally Posted by tmas View Post
    Whoa! I think you misunderstand me. The price I mentioned came from the latest article of Fortune Magazine which I received about 10 days ago. Before receiving the magazine I had no idea that "bourbon insanity" had reached the level it has, in the Fortune Article they mention up to $1,395. as the current aftermarket value of the Pappy 20. I mentioned it on SB to get some feedback (not to sell it through the site).

    As far as me ripping anyone off, if I did sell it I would simply want the average price that the market will bear. After all, don't most people sell something for it's market value? The most meaningful definition of value is " whatever someone is willing to pay" for something.

    I must say I don't agree with your opinion that someone buying Pappy 20 for big $ is a "chump" or a "jack ass". Everyone's means are different. Who 'am I to say that someone to whom $1,000+ is no big deal is a fool for doing with it as he or she prefers? I mean I personally can't afford to go in a restaurant and pay $2,000. for a bottle of Napa Cabernet, but plenty of folks do, because they can and they want to. Is Oprah Winfrey a jack ass when she buys a purse for $30,000? Hey it's her money, if she prefers to buy a purse for $30,000 rather than giving it to charity that's her choice and right and it doesn't make her a jack ass.
    Except fortune magazine is wrong, and you are wrong about market value and $1300 is NOT the average price the market bears. Those numbers ONLY work if you use what people are listing it at. 10 minutes of searching around secondary market you can find an average of what itís SELLING at (tops is $750) to MOST people. Of course somewhere a uninformed soul who did no research and just bought the first thing they saw at whatever the asking price has happened...but it is not the norm (Even in NYC which arguably has some of the highest secondary market prices)

    now your examples. If you go to a restaurant a buy a $2K bottle of Napa Cabernet does this make you a fool....NO......If you could go to several other restaurants of equal caliber and purchase the same said bottle for $1K and yet you still buy the $2K bottle........Yes you are a fool. Might be because your lazy / ignorant but a fool none the less

    Of course Oprah can spend her $30k on whatever she would like. Even a purse. But again, if she could stroll down the same block and purchase that bag $15K and you donít......yes you are a chump.

    My point is if you charge someone and they buy a bottle of 20 year PVW from you (a black market seller who could be shady) for $1300 when in Manhattan you can stroll into a legitimate shop and pay (yes a still way mark up price) for $750 ........then yes you are ripping them off and they are a chump. You would only be getting $1300 because the person is ill informed not because it holds true value. And that to me sounds like taking advantage of someone
    Last edited by BonVivant84; 03-18-2014 at 15:38.
    Birth, School, Whisk(e)y, Death!

  10. #10
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    Re: My 14 carat Pappy

    Quote Originally Posted by BonVivant84 View Post
    Except fortune magazine is wrong, and you are wrong about market value and $1300 is NOT the average price the market bears. Those numbers ONLY work if you use what people are listing it at. 10 minutes of searching around secondary market you can find an average of what it’s SELLING at (tops is $750) to MOST people. Of course somewhere a uninformed soul who did no research and just bought the first thing they saw at whatever the asking price has happened...but it is not the norm (Even in NYC which arguably has some of the highest secondary market prices)

    now your examples. If you go to a restaurant a buy a $2K bottle of Napa Cabernet does this make you a fool....NO......If you could go to several other restaurants of equal caliber and purchase the same said bottle for $1K and yet you still buy the $2K bottle........Yes you are a fool. Might be because your lazy / ignorant but a fool none the less

    Of course Oprah can spend her $30k on whatever she would like. Even a purse. But again, if she could stroll down the same block and purchase that bag $15K and you don’t......yes you are a chump.

    My point is if you charge someone and they buy a bottle of 20 year PVW from you (a black market seller who could be shady) for $1300 when in Manhattan you can stroll into a legitimate shop and pay (yes a still way mark up price) for $750 ........then yes you are ripping them off and they are a chump. You would only be getting $1300 because the person is ill informed not because it holds true value. And that to me sounds like taking advantage of someone

    Yes, I should have added the words "up to" in my original post. Whether or not Fortune Magazine can document an actual sale for $1,395. I couldn't say. If it's so easy to buy the Pappy 20 for significantly less then I guess there's not much danger of me or anyone else "ripping off" anyone. Like I said I posted for some friendly feedback.

    We could go back and forth on the restaurant thing and the Oprah thing all day long. People tend to go to a restaurant that they want to go to. If someone pays big bucks for a bottle of wine which happens to cost less in a restaurant that they didn't choose to go to, or if they choose not to comparison shop their restaurant wine purchase beforehand, that is a choice, obviously it wasn't that important to the person in question...again their money, their choice, not a fool or a chump, and not the restaurant ripping them off unless they held a gun to their head and forced them to buy it. Same goes for the Oprah thing, if she chooses not to comparison shop that's her choice. She can afford it and perhaps with her resources she'd rather spend her time doing something else.

    For the record, I am not interested in gouging anyone. If I sold it I wouldn't be looking to set a new benchmark, just within the current market range, no coercion, no gun to the head, their choice.

    Bro have a nice glass of bourbon, I ain't no bad guy.

 

 

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