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  1. #31
    Connoisseur
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    Re: The Proof, The Whole Proof, and Nothing but the Proof.

    You just don't get it. It's not efficiency that's changed, it's FLAVOR! Those distillers are looking for LESS, not more, flavor in their distillate. They don't make distillate any more efficiently than bourbon distillers by distilling to higher proof, they only make less flavorful distillate.
    Last edited by MauiSon; 02-04-2014 at 11:50.

  2. #32
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    Re: The Proof, The Whole Proof, and Nothing but the Proof.

    What I do get is 160 is more than 100.
    We're Bourbon Geeks, it's who we are, it's what we do.

  3. #33
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    Re: The Proof, The Whole Proof, and Nothing but the Proof.


  4. #34
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    Re: The Proof, The Whole Proof, and Nothing but the Proof.

    Interesting thread and helpful. Did I get this right, that higher proof off of the still is more efficiently stored (once diluted to entry proof) but takes longer to age, but is still deemed more profitable since more value is attached to the higher age statement that offsets the longer aging ... SO ...

    Since age statements are going away except for the very high end bottlings, why not return to the lower distillation proof/more barrels to store model? Since those barrels age faster and are going to be bottled as NAS anyway, the throughput in the rickhouse should be the same or better since you are turning barrels over quicker? And maybe you are producing higher quality low- mid-shelfers?
    Mark

  5. #35
    Bourbonian Of The Year 2013 and Guru
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    Re: The Proof, The Whole Proof, and Nothing but the Proof.

    Quote Originally Posted by sutton View Post
    Interesting thread and helpful. Did I get this right, that higher proof off of the still is more efficiently stored (once diluted to entry proof) but takes longer to age, but is still deemed more profitable since more value is attached to the higher age statement that offsets the longer aging ... SO ...

    Since age statements are going away except for the very high end bottlings, why not return to the lower distillation proof/more barrels to store model? Since those barrels age faster and are going to be bottled as NAS anyway, the throughput in the rickhouse should be the same or better since you are turning barrels over quicker? And maybe you are producing higher quality low- mid-shelfers?
    So, what is time, again?...


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    JOE

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    "Every bottle is its own learning experience." -- Sensei Ox-sama

  6. #36
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    Re: The Proof, The Whole Proof, and Nothing but the Proof.

    Mark I guess admitting lower proofs are a good idea would be admitting to a mistake for the change to higher proofs and admitting to a mistake is not something managers want to admit.
    Last edited by squire; 02-04-2014 at 19:18.
    We're Bourbon Geeks, it's who we are, it's what we do.

  7. #37
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    Re: The Proof, The Whole Proof, and Nothing but the Proof.

    Quote Originally Posted by squire View Post
    Mark I guess admitting lower proofs are a good idea would be admitting to a mistake for the change to higher proofs and admitting to a mistake is not something managers want to admit.
    I do it all the time ... it is quite liberating.
    Mark

  8. #38
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    Re: The Proof, The Whole Proof, and Nothing but the Proof.

    Quote Originally Posted by sutton View Post
    I do it all the time (admit to a mistake)... it is quite liberating.
    When I was way younger, I tried to make excuses when I screwed up. Later, when I was summoned by the boss for a good ass chewing, I found that confessing right up front took all the steam out of him. Not only that, but it helped create the impression of integrity. Once you can fake integrity, you can get away with anything.
    If God made anything better than bourbon he must have kept it for Hisself.

  9. #39
    Bourbonian of the Year 2011
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    Toronto, Canada
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    Re: The Proof, The Whole Proof, and Nothing but the Proof.

    On the interesting question of efficiency in relation to producing the same amount of alcohol from a given mash, I would think you expend less energy on a net basis to produce high-proof distillate than low-proof and also you use less water, less mass has to be heated, less supervision and personnel time, etc.

    I agree however that for bourbon, probably high-proof distillers seek a milder distillate and the higher the proof, the less congeneric it is, at least from the column still. From the pot still, not necessarily. I understand Versailles make comes off at 159 proof and that's one tiger of a spirit, as you can tell in dilute form in WR never mind the iterations that are 100% Versailles distillate.

    But in general as I see it, it is win-win at higher proofs, you maximize on energy and op cost savings.

    It would be interesting to see an engineering study on this whole question, it is fascinating.

    Gary
    Last edited by Gillman; 02-05-2014 at 08:17.

  10. #40
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    Re: The Proof, The Whole Proof, and Nothing but the Proof.

    For some more historical perspective and as it is follows distilling proof here is a 2011 thread on barreling proof research I found being done by Hiram Walker back in 1959.

    http://www.straightbourbon.com/forum...search-article

    Or the research article itself.

    http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf60103a008
    Thad

    BTOTY-2011

 

 

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