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Thread: TTB Failure

  1. #1
    Mr. Anal Retentive Bourbon Drinker
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    TTB Failure

    Ran across of another incidence where the TTB seems to not even understand the laws they are their to enforce.

    http://redwhiteandbourbon.com/2014/0...-andy-bourbon/

    Whistling Andy is a craft distilled grain to glass straight bourbon made in Montana. It's 3 years old, but under 4. They submitted and a label was approved by the TTB to be labeled as a Straight bourbon with no age statement.

    27 CFR 5 rules are very clear that to be called Straight Bourbon and under 4 years old, one must include age statement.
    Last edited by wadewood; 02-25-2014 at 08:47.

  2. #2
    Disciple
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    Re: TTB Failure

    Unfortunately it is the federal government and enforcing or not enforcing anything vary from year to year and from dept to dept

    "it is what it is"

  3. #3
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    Re: TTB Failure

    oh my god do not let the NDPs see this.

  4. #4
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    Re: TTB Failure

    3 year old 80 proof for $38?

    that usually falls into the sub $10 category around here.

  5. #5
    Virtuoso
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    Re: TTB Failure

    Wow. If the TTB can't even get something this simple right, what good is something like the Bottled-in-Bond Act? If they aren't even doing the basics in consumer protection, are we just a couple of steps away from going back to the days of the rectifiers and additives? I know most don't read the label, but that isn't the point. If no one thinks Uncle Sam is watching beyond just getting his tax revenue, what's to stop anyone from putting anything they want in the bottle again?

    If they majors self-comply out of good business practice, then I have a budget reduction suggestion for the U.S. Gov't ....
    Mark

  6. #6
    Connoisseur
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    Re: TTB Failure

    Quote Originally Posted by sutton View Post
    Wow. If the TTB can't even get something this simple right, what good is something like the Bottled-in-Bond Act? If they aren't even doing the basics in consumer protection, are we just a couple of steps away from going back to the days of the rectifiers and additives? I know most don't read the label, but that isn't the point. If no one thinks Uncle Sam is watching beyond just getting his tax revenue, what's to stop anyone from putting anything they want in the bottle again?

    If they majors self-comply out of good business practice, then I have a budget reduction suggestion for the U.S. Gov't ....
    WOW! You are right on. This is almost beyond belief. It's so simple, yet, apparently, too much for these overpaid morons, who are assigned the task of READING, in order to protect us from unscrupulous folks filling the market place with swill.
    Thanx, again Uncle Sam for doing such a great job with our tax dollars!

  7. #7
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    Re: TTB Failure

    Hhhhm. I just went to ttb.gov and pulled up the Whistling Andy label application (TTB ID 13203001000518). It was filed 7/22/2013 and approved 9/03/2013. The "TYPE" of application is marked as "CERTIFICATE OF LABEL APPROVAL". No place on the form requires the applicant to state, certify, or otherwise prove that whatever is going in the bottle meets statutory or regulatory req'ts applicable to the spirit "CLASS/TYPE DESCRIPTION" appearing on the label.

    In other words, I'm wondering if the office approving this app is only approving the artwork, so to speak, meaning that some other Dpt. of Treas/Internal Rev/ATF is supposed to make sure that what goes in meets the definition of the spirit on the label.

    I'm curious enough to keep poking - used to do this kind of poking for a living. Let's see if I can still poke. I'll let you know what I find.

  8. #8
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    Re: TTB Failure

    I was thinking the same thing Harry. Label approval and enforcing regulations don't seem to be the same thing in this case. At least we can hope.

  9. #9
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    Re: TTB Failure

    I smell BS.

    Despite what the blogger says, there's nothing on the label application that states the age of the product that will actually go into the bottle. I doubt if the TTB employee who actually approved the label had any such communication from the producer.

    Additionally, the label application includes the following (emphasis added):
    Under the penalties of perjury, I declare; that all statements appearing on this application are true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief; and, that the representations on the labels attached to this form, including supplemental documents, truly and correctly represent the content of the containers to which these labels will be applied. I also certify that I have read, understood and complied with the conditions and instructions which are attached to an original TTB F 5100.31, Certificate/Exemption of Label/Bottle Approval.

    The problem here is with the distiller and not the TTB.
    John B

    "Drinking when we are not thirsty and making love at all seasons… that is all there is to distinguish us from other animals."

  10. #10
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    Re: TTB Failure

    Of course that decision can be reviewed if anyone registers a complaint. I'm not, but I believe anyone can.
    We're Bourbon Geeks, it's who we are, it's what we do.

 

 

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