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  1. #111

    Re: Four Kings Whiskey

    now all this hype has got me wanting to sample it, especially after Chuck's review. Too bad it'll not hit my neck o' wood. Or just as well since it would probably be over the $25 which is max I'd trade for it. I used to jump on each new craft that came down the pike. Still consider some if not priced too high. Found a few that were actually pretty good.

  2. #112
    Bourbonian of the Year 2002 and Guru
    Join Date
    Sep 1999

    Re: Four Kings Whiskey

    I would actually like the opportunity to taste it in a little more depth, which Joe at Binny's has offered to let me do, but I'm not sure I want it badly enough to make the trip. If you're interested in following the progress of the region's micro-distilleries, it's an important milestone. If you want to kick them to the curb for their transgressions, that's okay too.

    One interesting thing is that you have four guys and four very different personalities, reflected in the different ways they dealt with the mislabeling issue. I would disagree that there was ever truly a cover-up. Instead it was four guys, in different parts of the region, scrambling to figure out how they wanted to deal with it. One descended into cerebral masturbation, then went silent. Another was completely outfront, forthright, and unperturbed. He didn't have all of the information at first, as he didn't do the blending, which is weird in its own right, but he gave me the answer as soon as he had it. Another was willing to be forthright, but also got his feelings hurt, and the fourth guy was invisible throughout.

    By the way, my assessment is that it should have been labeled as blended bourbon or bourbon-a blend.

    If you look at the label, you can see the much bigger problem they made for themselves. Most states require that any distilled spirit product offered in the state must be offered equally to all licensees. Wild Turkey, for example, can show that it's targeting on-premise by only offering WT101 Rye in 1L bottles, but the distributor can't refuse to sell the product to off-premise accounts. Other accounts never had the opportunity to purchase Four Kings, because Binny's bought the whole run, and in reward got Binny's on the label. That is having much bigger repercussions than the other labeling snafu.
    Last edited by cowdery; 05-01-2014 at 11:39.

  3. #113
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Swaziland, Africa

    Re: Four Kings Bourbon Whiskey

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    I like Corsair but they're wrong for the reasons mentioned above. This kind of stuff didn't happen when Kickert worked there.

    Ha! I will take that as a compliment, even if it is misplaced.

    Obviously I am a bit removed from the situation (3 years and 9,000 miles) so I can't comment on the specifics, especially as it relates to Corsair, but I can say this:

    The issues with the TTB are much deeper seated than most "enthusiasts" know. Obviously plenty of incorrect labels are getting through -- that is not new information. And I would say that there are probably several distilleries taking advantage of the TTB's lax monitoring. But, the errors are not just passive. I know multiple distilleries who have submitted correctly labeled COLAs and been REQUIRED to change them. Often a distillery is trying to be forthright about the providence or production of a product, and the TTB doesn't like the disclosure. At other times the TTB has required a specific spirits class even when it is not correct -- sometimes even requiring different classifications for products that are virtually identical.

    At the end of the day, the TTB regulations and processes are behind the times and not able to adequately handle how the industry has evolved in the last decade to include products and procedures never before imagined.

    Personally my priorities on matters like this are as follows: 1) The product tastes good. 2) The distilleries are honest about the product. 3) The label is correct.

    Anyway... just my thoughts... they are worth what you paid for them.
    Last edited by kickert; 05-02-2014 at 00:25. Reason: formatting
    Hope is subversive, for it limits the grandiose pretensions of the present by calling into existence the possibility of something better.

  4. #114
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Park City, UT

    Re: Four Kings Bourbon Whiskey

    What an entertaining thread.

    After all is said and done, hopefully the issues with this release won't deter future collaborations. The initial idea was a good one, the big boys have done similar bottlings. One thing the crafts need to remember, putting multiple uninteresting products together in the same bottle doesn't automatically make the final product interesting. The end result is what matters.

    And as we know, labelling has become an increasingly slippery slope. As stated much earlier in the discussion, its up to us to stand guard and know what we're supporting with our dollars.

  5. #115
    Advanced Taster
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Sydney, Australia

    Re: Four Kings Bourbon Whiskey

    I was just surfing the Bay and saw Four Kings going for 109euro and how it was controversial and checked out the listing. Guess what web site and thread was linked in the description!



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