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  1. #11
    Connoisseur
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    Jan 2012
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    Atlanta, Georgia
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    519

    Re: Four Kings Bourbon Whiskey

    Quote Originally Posted by callmeox View Post
    Who is going to fill out the TTB complaint form?

    This is no different than Forgiven which most likely contained over 51% corn between the bourbon and rye components yet the class/type is whiskey and not bourbon.
    Exactly, they just wanted to avoid using "blend" and knew TTB was unlikely to call them out. Very blatant. What's more, the product actually sounds more interesting to me when the existence of smoked wheat whiskey is highlighted. I'm not interested in overpriced craft whiskey unless it has something unique about it that the big distilleries don't offer.
    Epicurean in the ATL - Atlanta-Based Food, Whiskey & Cocktail Blog

  2. #12
    Enthusiast
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    Sep 2013
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    Madison, WI
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    387

    Re: Four Kings Bourbon Whiskey

    On top of all that - "Four Kings"? Isn't that elevating the stature of Few, Corsair, Journeyman's and Miss. River a bit above their current ranking in bourbon royalty?

  3. #13
    Guru
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    Sep 2004
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    12,467

    Re: Four Kings Bourbon Whiskey

    It's because "The World's Finest Bourbon" was already taken.
    We're Bourbon Geeks, it's who we are, it's what we do.

  4. #14

    Re: Four Kings Bourbon Whiskey

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveOfAtl View Post
    Am I off on this?
    Hey Dave, Corsair Andrew here.


    The barrels of the Four Kings collab that were decanted on Monday were all filled with the same four grain bourbon. The bottled stuff is, per the BAM, TTB regs, and tradition, a bourbon. Weird thanks to the smoke, but labeled truthfully and properly.


    As a point of interest there are some weird rules at play outside of your worry. The Four Kings stuff cannot be labeled a "straight" bourbon regardless of age because the production happened in multiple states. It cannot be a "blended" bourbon - which I would prefer - because a blended bourbon is a blend of straight bourbons, not just bourbons. At least, so reads the BAM and so states the TTB.


    I will say, though, that you are off on expecting a bourbon to be the final recipe pre-barrel. I expect you've had a healthy number of bourbons cross your lips that were high-corn bourbons mixed post-decant with new-oak aged rye or new-oak aged wheat whiskey. It's not uncommon.


    I do respect holding distillers to account for deceptive practices. In this instance, I would suggest you think again about who is involved with this collab. Three of the four distilleries involved sit on the ACDA Ethics committee, which is tasked with helping the craft industry cope with deceptive and poorly labeled products. All the distilleries involved have been on the forefront of being open about process and product, pushing boundaries, and setting examples to counter those entities I think we all can agree are not on the level.


    More practically, there's less than a thousand bottles of this whiskey, and it would sell out with any class and type label at twice the price it will be on shelves. There is no economic or marketing point to mislabeling the juice. This is a product done for fun and mutual respect, which I think is worthy of support.


    In the defense of the TTB - note an unconventional distillery defending the government - they are cracking down on requiring formulas for most kinds of whiskeys, a step which has not been enforced for many years. This means newer label whiskeys in the states had their recipes and production steps vetted by the TTB's formula office before a label could be issued.

    At the end of the day, though, you don't need to be convinced. Try the whiskey or not; you define who will be successful and who will fall by the way as whiskey changes and grows in the US. All the distilleries involved are used to enthusiasm and rejection in the same day. It's the blessing and curse of crafting for an enthusiast-driven industry.

    Best,
    Andrew
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -HL Mencken

    Corsair Distillery KY

  5. #15
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    Jun 2012
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    Re: Four Kings Bourbon Whiskey

    If it has wheat whiskey in it then it is not a bourbon. Sorry.

  6. #16
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    Dec 2012
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    Houston
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    Re: Four Kings Bourbon Whiskey

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
    I will say, though, that you are off on expecting a bourbon to be the final recipe pre-barrel. I expect you've had a healthy number of bourbons cross your lips that were high-corn bourbons mixed post-decant with new-oak aged rye or new-oak aged wheat whiskey. It's not uncommon.
    I'm pretty sure that's not right, or I don't understand what you are saying. You can't mix a straight rye whiskey with a straight corn whiskey and make bourbon of any kind (straight or other.)
    I've never tried GTS with any sort of soda. Maybe I'm missing out; but I'm OK with that.

  7. #17
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    Jun 2012
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    Re: Four Kings Bourbon Whiskey

    See FORGIVEN. Why wouldn't they have labeled it bourbon if they could? May not still be sitting on the shelves. Like this super limited product hopefully will.

  8. #18
    Disciple
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    Jun 2013
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    NWGA
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    1,960

    Re: Four Kings Bourbon Whiskey

    I took it to mean that it was a wheater bourbon, not a wheat whiskey. Maybe I misread but I've read it twice now. I do like the fact that our thread had a response from one of the responsible parties.

    It's always nice to get a response from a producer even if we don't agree.

  9. #19
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    Re: Four Kings Bourbon Whiskey

    Pretty clearly says wheat whiskey on a couple of places. Bourbon ain't that hard to spell.

    Where's that TTB complaint form, Scott?

  10. #20
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    Re: Four Kings Bourbon Whiskey

    Thank you Andrew for taking the time to post. I understood the TTB was vetting formulas and such before label approval and that certainly is a positive development.

    Did you mean to say the wheat whisky is in fact a wheat recipe Bourbon?
    We're Bourbon Geeks, it's who we are, it's what we do.

 

 

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