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  1. #11
    Bourbonian of the Year 2002 and Guru
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    Sep 1999
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    Chicago
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    12,603

    Re: whiskies that fail to list State of Distillation?

    One of the listed distillers called me today about this. He says he's unaware of this rule. For the benefit of he and any other offenders, it is Section 5.36(d). (Emphasis mine.)

    (d) State of distillation. Except in the case of 'light whisky,' 'blended light whisky,' 'blended whisky,' 'a blend of straight whiskies,' or 'spirit whisky,' the State of distillation shall be shown on the label of any whisky produced in the United States if the whisky is not distilled in the State given in the address on the brand label. The appropriate ATF officer may, however, require the State of distillation to be shown on the label or he may permit such other labeling as may be necessary to negate any misleading or deceptive impression which might be created as to the actual State of distillation. In the case of 'light whisky,' as defined in Sec. 5.22(b)(3), the State of distillation shall not appear in any manner on any label, when the appropriate ATF officer finds such State is associated by consumers with an American type whisky, except as a part of a name and address as set forth in paragraph (a) of this section.
    Last edited by cowdery; 04-23-2014 at 13:27.

  2. #12
    Advanced Taster
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    184

    Re: whiskies that fail to list State of Distillation?

    This is real "new age" thinking here, but if I'm an employee of the TTB, I'm signing up for this board for research and interaction/outreach purposes.

    Just a suggestion, if there are any TTB lurkers.

  3. #13
    Connoisseur
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    Jun 2010
    Location
    Greenwood, IN
    Posts
    724

    Re: whiskies that fail to list State of Distillation?

    I remember Jefferson Rye used to say Canada on the label. The more recent ones don't have Canada on the label, but taste similar. I don't know if maybe this belongs on Wade's list.

  4. #14
    Mr. Anal Retentive Bourbon Drinker
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,822

    Re: whiskies that fail to list State of Distillation?

    I'm sure many more could be included on this list. High West does not list the actual State of distillation on their sourced products but at least they are upfront about it and do say it is sourced on their website. I focused on those in Texas and especially on those I feel purpose is specifically designed to deceive the consumer.

  5. #15
    Virtuoso
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    Apr 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
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    1,175

    Re: whiskies that fail to list State of Distillation?

    Quote Originally Posted by wadewood View Post
    I'm sure many more could be included on this list. High West does not list the actual State of distillation on their sourced products but at least they are upfront about it and do say it is sourced on their website. I focused on those in Texas and especially on those I feel purpose is specifically designed to deceive the consumer.
    High West doesn't have to on most of their whiskeys since they list them as blends of straight whiskeys. There are tons of MGP whiskeys that don't list the state. I don't even think Smooth Ambler lists Indiana on their Old Scout labels even though they have been open about it being MGP whiskey.

  6. #16
    Disciple
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    Aug 2012
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    A pretty great state.
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    1,784

    Re: whiskies that fail to list State of Distillation?

    Quote Originally Posted by VT Mike View Post
    Didn't High West put out a whiskey that was a vatting of young whiskey that was distilled by them and older sourced whiskey? In a case such as that are they required to list both states on the label?
    They've never bottled such a whiskey.

    They do name the origin state on 12 and 16; those are the only straight whiskeys they have sold.
    Jim

  7. #17
    Disciple
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    Aug 2012
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    1,784

    Re: whiskies that fail to list State of Distillation?

    Quote Originally Posted by sku View Post
    High West doesn't have to on most of their whiskeys since they list them as blends of straight whiskeys. There are tons of MGP whiskeys that don't list the state. I don't even think Smooth Ambler lists Indiana on their Old Scout labels even though they have been open about it being MGP whiskey.
    I don't have a bottle of the standard release Old Scout but the bottle I have from a private barrel states DSP-IN-1.

    Faultline says Distilled in Indiana.
    Jim

  8. #18
    Connoisseur
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    downtown DC
    Posts
    759

    Re: whiskies that fail to list State of Distillation?

    My 14 year Very Old Scout doesn't give the state, but a TPS 10 year has an Indiana DSP.

    Chuck, do we need to take away their achievement star? In their defense, they have an entire *paragraph* on these bottles about how they sourced the whiskey.

  9. #19
    Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Washington DC
    Posts
    473

    Re: whiskies that fail to list State of Distillation?

    The one bottle of SA 7 "Straight Bourbon" currently available to me (the others being out of reach and I'm not going downstairs to look at them or at my SA 7 Rye right now) says "Bottled by" and gives the WV address AND its web address (and the website pretty clearly says where it was distilled). Like b_s's SAVOS 14, my label does have a paragraph saying it was ". . ."scouted" during our efforts to find exceptional . . ." After thinking about this far too much, I concluded that few distillers don't know where their still or their barrels are and, thus, also concluded, that a person who knew enough or cared enough to try to figure out where it was distilled at least has a clue that it likely was not at the address listed under "Bottled by". Further, I probably could argue with a straight face (lawyer talk for "Giving it my best shot") that a phrase in the reg. that Chuck quoted above COULD be construed as giving the ATF officer perusing a label the discretion to do nothing about missing "distilled in [state]" IF the officer concludes that nothing else on the label would intentionally mislead someone who cared about its distillation state into thinking the spirit in the bottle was distilled in the state in which it was bottled.

    EDIT - The phrase I refer to is the one starting wit "or" about allowing some other info on the label to avoid confusion. Much stuff fits through the "or" loophole.
    Last edited by Harry in WashDC; 04-26-2014 at 14:56.

  10. #20
    Guru
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    Sep 2004
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    Jackson, MS
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    12,087

    Re: whiskies that fail to list State of Distillation?

    If there is just the tiniest bit of clearance between the post and the gate an enterprising puppy will get out of the yard. I get the distinct impression the TTB is not operating at minimum tolerances.
    We're Bourbon Geeks, it's who we are, it's what we do.

 

 

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