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  1. #21
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    Re: Aging bourbon is seconds?

    Sounds tempting but I couldn't bring myself to adulterate good root beer.
    We're Bourbon Geeks, it's who we are, it's what we do.

  2. #22
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    Re: Aging bourbon is seconds?

    Quote Originally Posted by squire View Post
    Sounds tempting but I couldn't bring myself to adulterate good root beer.
    The anti science atmosphere I get here, but as an engineer the potential shouldnt be so joked about here. A few years of product development and testing and these guys could have a device that is included in every rickhouse. Laugh all you want but I know being new to bourbon I'm already to the point of not liking bottles without 8 plus years stated. A device in each barrel to increase the process of in and out of the char layer could bring us aged bourbon as we are used to taste and aroma wise in a few years, maybe months. I guess a young guy doesnt get the hatred toward new possible science in bourbon.
    Last edited by jmj_203; 05-07-2014 at 21:57.

  3. #23
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    Re: Aging bourbon is seconds?

    jmj,

    I wouldn't say "anti-science" as much as a high degree of skepticism given that those on this board have seen different attempts at making it "just as good as" ... everything from small barrels to Cleveland whiskey has been touted as the next short cut, and all have been lacking in some way (or in every way).

    Certainly experimentation is welcomed (look at BT) - anything that advances the understanding of what is in the bottle is welcomed. But some experiments don't make it past the mid-palate ...
    Mark

  4. #24
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    Re: Aging bourbon is seconds?

    In a recent twitter exchange about this article, David Wondrich put it well. Extraction is not the same as aging. Slow, controlled oxidation in the barrel transforms & eliminates many of the new-spirit volatile organic acids. These time cheating technologies increase wood interaction but do not an aged product make.
    Epicurean in the ATL - Atlanta-Based Food, Whiskey & Cocktail Blog

  5. #25
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    Re: Aging bourbon is seconds?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmj_203 View Post
    I guess a young guy doesnt get the hatred toward new possible science in bourbon.
    Oh, I wouldn't put it that strongly jmj. Hatred is an emotion and I don't get emotional over this stuff.

    Taking raw spirit and treating it with wood chips in apparatus such as pressure cookers, adding coloring, liquid smoke, that sort of thing, is nothing new. The rectifiers were doing precisely that more than 100 years ago. In fact it was this and other such adulterating practices that gave rise to the Bottled in Bond Act of 1897.

    Make no mistake, what these guys are doing is not science. They're in it for the money and these new (actually quite old) procedures are just a marketing hook to disguise the fact they are pushing young, raw stuff at prices comparable to the real thing.
    We're Bourbon Geeks, it's who we are, it's what we do.

  6. #26
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    Re: Aging bourbon is seconds?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmj_203 View Post
    The anti science atmosphere I get here, but as an engineer the potential shouldnt be so joked about here. A few years of product development and testing and these guys could have a device that is included in every rickhouse. Laugh all you want but I know being new to bourbon I'm already to the point of not liking bottles without 8 plus years stated. A device in each barrel to increase the process of in and out of the char layer could bring us aged bourbon as we are used to taste and aroma wise in a few years, maybe months. I guess a young guy doesnt get the hatred toward new possible science in bourbon.
    This new technology may not deserve to be attacked with fire and pitchforks, but it most certainly deserves to be laughed at. As others have stated, the problem with this process is that it ignores science. It is only looking at the ingredients, and not the aging process. A mechanical extraction process from the wood achieves some of the same results as aging, but it does not give you the same end product. Anything that does not duplicate the product of the chemical reactions that take place during traditional aging is a fraud.

    I have never tried to use a short blast from a blowtorch to bake a cake. It might be the same amount of total heat as 45 minutes in an oven, but a very basic understanding of cooking tells me that it will not produce the same result. Relying on knowledge and experience to discount this process does not equal hating science.

    To assume everyone here is anti science is pretty absurd, and more than a little insulting. Go look up the the thread on the lead content of bourbon stored in decanters. We got a couple fellers who ain't no dummys. I am not exactly sure what type of people you think make up the majority of the active members here.

    Ok, to be completely honest I now have the desire to bake a cake with a blowtorch. And then watch Duck Dynasty while heating my can of beans over a stack of burning textbooks.
    "Unless it survived a tornado, weathered a snow storm in Scotland, and then spent a year on boat before returning home, I'm not really interested."

  7. #27
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    Re: Aging bourbon is seconds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantum View Post
    This new technology may not deserve to be attacked with fire and pitchforks, but it most certainly deserves to be laughed at. As others have stated, the problem with this process is that it ignores science. It is only looking at the ingredients, and not the aging process. A mechanical extraction process from the wood achieves some of the same results as aging, but it does not give you the same end product. Anything that does not duplicate the product of the chemical reactions that take place during traditional aging is a fraud.

    I have never tried to use a short blast from a blowtorch to bake a cake. It might be the same amount of total heat as 45 minutes in an oven, but a very basic understanding of cooking tells me that it will not produce the same result. Relying on knowledge and experience to discount this process does not equal hating science.

    To assume everyone here is anti science is pretty absurd, and more than a little insulting. Go look up the the thread on the lead content of bourbon stored in decanters. We got a couple fellers who ain't no dummys. I am not exactly sure what type of people you think make up the majority of the active members here.

    Ok, to be completely honest I now have the desire to bake a cake with a blowtorch. And then watch Duck Dynasty while heating my can of beans over a stack of burning textbooks.
    Nice post, Q. One of the best this year. Don't forget to grunt while you cook them beans.
    JOE

    Wag more.
    Bark less.

    "Every bottle is its own learning experience." -- Sensei Ox-sama

  8. #28
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    Re: Aging bourbon is seconds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantum View Post
    This new technology may not deserve to be attacked with fire and pitchforks, but it most certainly deserves to be laughed at. As others have stated, the problem with this process is that it ignores science. It is only looking at the ingredients, and not the aging process. A mechanical extraction process from the wood achieves some of the same results as aging, but it does not give you the same end product. Anything that does not duplicate the product of the chemical reactions that take place during traditional aging is a fraud.

    I have never tried to use a short blast from a blowtorch to bake a cake. It might be the same amount of total heat as 45 minutes in an oven, but a very basic understanding of cooking tells me that it will not produce the same result. Relying on knowledge and experience to discount this process does not equal hating science.

    To assume everyone here is anti science is pretty absurd, and more than a little insulting. Go look up the the thread on the lead content of bourbon stored in decanters. We got a couple fellers who ain't no dummys. I am not exactly sure what type of people you think make up the majority of the active members here.

    Ok, to be completely honest I now have the desire to bake a cake with a blowtorch. And then watch Duck Dynasty while heating my can of beans over a stack of burning textbooks.
    Excellent post. As an engineer I'm sure that we have the capability to create scientific processes which would result in the exact chemical composition of a whiskey. The thing is the amount of R&D that would go into it would be staggering due to the number of variables you would have to research and ultimately control. The cost of entry is going to be significantly high enough to keep people from trying it. Not to mention the fickleness of the general public which is needed to fund a venture like this.

    That being said, I'm sure experimentation has been ongoing and we will continue to see new products on the market some of which may end up improving what we get in future bottles.

  9. #29
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    Re: Aging bourbon is seconds?

    Ah, what the future holds. I picture a bartender with his fingers resting on a rheostat saying, "You want your Bourbon aged? How many years?"
    We're Bourbon Geeks, it's who we are, it's what we do.

  10. #30
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    Re: Aging bourbon is seconds?

    Quote Originally Posted by squire View Post
    Ah, what the future holds. I picture a bartender with his fingers resting on a rheostat saying, "You want your Bourbon aged? How many years?"

    Rheostat? This is the digital age, gramps.

    It will be voice operated.
    My name is Joel Goodson. I deal in human fulfillment.
    I grossed over eight thousand dollars in one night. Time of your life, huh kid?

 

 

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