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  1. #31
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    Transition from sourced distillate?

    Looks like New Riff has a bourbon and rye they will be selling. They were upfront that it was sourced from MGP. I believe the bourbon is 8 years old. Not sure about the rye

    http://newriffdistilling.com/oki/
    Last edited by chrisg; 07-04-2014 at 13:53.

  2. #32
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    Re: Transition from sourced distillate?

    Quote Originally Posted by DBM View Post
    Most of the examples given in this thread involve moving distilleries but owning the distilling process on both sides. I do believe that some craft distillers using NDP whiskey today plan on transitioning to their own aged distillate using the same/similar product label.

    Isn't this the case with Breckenridge? Their label is surprisingly void of details and simply says "bourbon whiskey" and includes the statement "Aged for a minimum of 2 years in charred new American oak barrels", yet it's fairly obvious by the profile that it's a longer aged NDP product that could be labeled "straight" and not need an age statement (=> 4 years). If one day, or over time, they blend/replace their own distillate into a bottle with the exact same label on the front (the fine print on the back may need to change, but who looks at that?), they aren't breaking any laws. It's very deceiving if they actually did that, especially with all the marketing they to do promote their awards, but it's entirely plausible.
    The problem with this analysis is that it is all speculation. Breckenridge certainly has made no statements to this effect because they don't admit they're bottling whiskey they didn't make and whether or not they actually make anything is unknown. AND they are in violation of several labeling rules, though I don't know if that qualifies as "breaking any laws" in your mind.

  3. #33
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    Re: Transition from sourced distillate?

    Quote Originally Posted by cowdery View Post
    The problem with this analysis is that it is all speculation. Breckenridge certainly has made no statements to this effect because they don't admit they're bottling whiskey they didn't make and whether or not they actually make anything is unknown. AND they are in violation of several labeling rules, though I don't know if that qualifies as "breaking any laws" in your mind.
    Fair point, but aren't you simply saying that lack of official statement from Breckenridge means that it shouldn't be speculated?

    sku more or less states what I implied that Breckenridge started as NDP bourbon and will be transitioned to their own make over time. Of course they can apply for a different label for this new product (of which they do have three or four bourbon labels approved - one with "For Sale in Colorado Only", a "winter release" and a single barrel), but their claim-to-fame-award-winning bourbon bottle is what folks are saying is being expressly described and advertised as Colorado distilled bourbon.

    Breckenridge's own site states the same grain composition and mashbill percentage as sku's post describing the Kentucky-sourced whiskey, though Breckenridge claims 2 to 3 years of aging in the bottle. At the very least that's strange.

    There is also a lot of odd data regarding Breckenridge as a distiller. They use DSP-CO-15017 on all their COLA applications for Breckenridge products (bourbon, vodka), but the application itself claims they are Double Diamond Distillery LLC dba Breckenridge Distillery, except that Double Diamond Distillery LLC is DSP-CO-15015 according to the TTB. DSP-CO-15017 is actually Dancing Pines Distillery LLC out of Loveland in a different county. Seems like there's a switch-a-roo in there somewhere, but I'm not experienced enough with TTB data to know if this confusing paper trail is normal or if it's intentionally trying to obfuscate something.

    I like my odds that Breckenridge is (sneakily) trying to move from sourced juice to their own without updating their marketing and sales strategy that this is a different product than what won all their "awards". And yes it's all speculation. If it's on the Internet, it must be true!

  4. #34
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    Re: Transition from sourced distillate?

    You can speculate all you want, and so can Steve, but the evidence is thin and mainly based on other speculation (if this, then that). Also, many people interpret 'produced by' which Breck claims, as meaning 'distilled by,' which they don't claim. They aren't the same thing. Legally, 'produced by' just means they did something, like put it in a bottle. Unless the label explicitly says 'distilled by' you can be 99% positive they didn't distill it.

    My point about speculation is that since they haven't admitted they don't make it now, they're not likely to make any statements about transitioning. People are assuming they're transitioning when there is no reason to believe they are making anything to transition to. Some people speculate that they are mixing house-made whiskey with Kentucky-made whiskey, but again there is no real evidence they are doing anything of the kind.

  5. #35
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    Re: Transition from sourced distillate?

    Chuck, those are very good points and there is nothing I can add to them. I do have one question: have you tasted the more recent stuff they put in their bottles? I thought it wasn't worth a purchase, but it did taste really different from any distillery profile I'm used to.

  6. #36
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    Re: Transition from sourced distillate?

    They have it at Binny's but I haven't had a chance to taste it. Maybe at our next Binny's get-together or at the gazebo. I'll taste it if I have the opportunity. As usual, I'm not too terribly interested in anybody who plays these kinds of games.

  7. #37
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    Re: Transition from sourced distillate?

    Has anyone tried this? As far as I know it is only available at the distillery and I was told they will not continue it after their own has aged. It's priced at $45 and I was gun shy about buying blind. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisg View Post
    Looks like New Riff has a bourbon and rye they will be selling. They were upfront that it was sourced from MGP. I believe the bourbon is 8 years old. Not sure about the rye

    http://newriffdistilling.com/oki/

  8. #38
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    Re: Transition from sourced distillate?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigmzungu View Post
    Has anyone tried this? As far as I know it is only available at the distillery and I was told they will not continue it after their own has aged. It's priced at $45 and I was gun shy about buying blind. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
    Kinda pricey at 95.4 pf without trying it first given it is much the same thing that Smooth Ambler is making available but generally at a higher proof with Old Scout and we already know SA can pick a quality barrel of whiskey.

    That said the TPS gang always seemed to have good store picks and some of the same people are likely picking these barrels so it is probably decent.
    That yella whiskey runnin' down my throat like honey dew vine water and I took another slash…

    Nullum Gratuitum Prandium
    Ne Illegitimi Carborundum

 

 

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