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  1. #61

    Re: VWFRR -- All Gone?

    ...not too bad a find for a bourbon hunter stumbling around in dark corners of an old liquor shop. ...
    You think that until you taste it -- then you'll find you've become a rye-hunter, too.

  2. #62
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    Re: VWFRR -- All Gone?

    ...not too bad a find for a bourbon hunter stumbling around in dark corners of an old liquor shop. ...
    You think that until you taste it -- then you'll find you've become a rye-hunter, too.
    Unfortunately for my bank account and the continued evaporation of my wife's patience, you are most likely going to be found correct in your statement. That will open up a whole new dimension in my newfound obsession!

    Wayne

  3. #63
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    Re: VWFRR -- All Gone?

    I have now started searching every "Fine Wine & Spirits" and "Gourmet Liquor" store I come across here in SoCal (specifically Orange County) and good grief there is an absolute load of them! But I do always get amused when I walk into one of these places and the owner/manager replies that his premium bourbons are Glenlivet, Remy Martin or JD Single Barrel. I just must say again I love all of you on this site for who you are and what you provide to my life: knowledge, without you I'd go crazy when I find people who don't know that Bourbon is a whiskey and not all whiskeys are bourbons… Anyway I am not too hopeful in this corner of the country that I’ll actually find any VW Family Reserve Rye, but that doesn’t mean I will not look. If anyone knows that it was or was not distributed in this area I’d appreciate the info!

    I seem to be fighting a losing battle where every corner market is a Fine or Gourmet liquor store...

  4. #64
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    Re: VWFRR -- All Gone?

    ...not too bad a find for a bourbon hunter stumbling around in dark corners of an old liquor shop. ...
    You think that until you taste it -- then you'll find you've become a rye-hunter, too.
    Unfortunately for my bank account and the continued evaporation of my wife's patience, you are most likely going to be found correct in your statement. That will open up a whole new dimension in my newfound obsession!

    Wayne
    And as your taste for Rye develops, make room on the shelf for a bottle of WT Rye. It's a very nice pour and my most common diversion from KS. At $18 a bottle it won't hurt you as badly as some others.

    Ken

  5. #65
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    Re: VWFRR -- All Gone?

    I'll second that WT Rye sentiment. This was the bottle that introduced me to rye and even with all the others out there now, I still have the highest regard for the WT. I recently mixed a Manhattan with the WT and Carpano Punt e Mes, and I think it was the best ever. Later, I tried the same thing with EC 12, and it was vastly inferior, way too sweet.

    The only other rye that's come close for me was the Van Winkle 12 and that may be because the nostalgia factor has elevated it. Would love to come across a new old bottle and find out.

  6. #66
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    Re: VWFRR -- All Gone?

    According to our State Liquor web site, only 1 store in the State had it, and its on the wrong side of the State for me I called just to see if they really had any, and it’s all gone, part of a special order.
    Today I am going to pick up a bottle of WT Rye, its kind of difficult to get for me as well? Only a couple stores in reasonable distance have it? What is Old Potrero Rye like? Relatively high priced at $101.95, is that one to look at some day in the future?

  7. #67
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    Re: VWFRR -- All Gone?

    Old Potrero is not really a rye like other ryes.

    Most whiskey bottled as "straight rye" is made from a mashbill of about 51% rye, a bit of malted barley, and the rest corn. (Old Overholt is a little higher in the rye percentage, IIRC.) There are variations between products depending on the distiller and the age, but they are generally recognizable as generally the same product.

    Old Potrero, on the other hand, is made from a mashbill of 100% malted rye. Malting substantially changes the character of a grain (for whiskey-making purposes, anyway) so Old Potrero is really a completely different category of whiskey.

    It's certainly worth trying. However, just because you like WT rye or Rittenhouse or VWFRR or Sazerac does not mean that you will also like Old Potrero. (Nor, of course, does it mean that you won't.) Given it's high price, if at all possible you should try to get some in a bar or something before dropping that much for a whole bottle.

    Opinions differ on whether it's good, or whether it's worth the price. Personally I like it, and while I'm not sure it's $100 whiskey, since it is really a unique style I'm willing to pay a premium to have some in the collection.

    I will mention tangentally that under the labeling regulations (27 CFR 5.22(b)(1)(i)) I don't think they should be able to call Old Potrero "straight rye" since the regs specifically list "rye malt whiskey" as a separate category, which is clearly what Old Potrero is. I think technically it should be labeled "straight rye malt whiskey", which would have the added benefit of informing consumers that it is different from regular straight rye. The feds seem to apply those regs a little loosely; see, e.g., "Tennessee whiskey". (That topic has been extensively discussed in this thread.)

  8. #68
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    Re: VWFRR -- All Gone?

    There is also a surfeit of Old Potrero labels out there. The most recent, Old Potrero "Straight Rye" Whiskey--sometimes labeled is no cheaper than the others, but is bottled at 90 proof, so the "bang for the buck" isn't there anymore. There are a bunch of different cask-strength bottlings of Potrero through the years--"18th Century Style" (two years or so in uncharred wood), "19th Century Style" (three years in charred wood, was replaced by the regular straight rye), "Single Malt Spirit" (California only), which is the same as..."Single Malt Whiskey" (two to two-and-a-half years in uncharred wood). It's very confusing, and I'm wondering if Anchor intended the 90 proof bottling to be the same price as the cask strength ones, or if distributors and such (1) got confused or (2) saw a way to make a few extra simoleons.

  9. #69
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    Re: VWFRR -- All Gone?

    Most whiskey bottled as "straight rye" is made from a mashbill of about 51% rye, a bit of malted barley, and the rest corn. (Old Overholt is a little higher in the rye percentage, IIRC.)
    This is what I remembered, too, but when I looked up mashbills recently in Regan & Regan, it seems they were led to believe that 65% is more the standard.

    Regan & Regan list both Heaven Hill and Wild Turkey as having 65% rye, 23% corn and 12% barley malt.

    IIRC the George Washington recipe was about 65% rye, 30% corn and 5% malted barley. I'm not sure if some of the rye was malted, as 5% would be a pretty low number for malt.

    Of course, whiskey writers never seem to report the same "facts", to the point that one wonders if they are speculating or if distillers make sport of supplying them with disinformation. Murray writes that WT would have about 55% rye, HH about 52%, Beam 51%, and Overholt at 61%.

    These numbers would be more in line with VW rye, which I believe Julian once wrote here on sb.com that it was at a "barely legal" level above 51%.

    So which writers is one to believe? Chuck, of course, but I can't recall without some research if he's ever weighed in on this rye mashbill thing.

    Roger

  10. #70
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    Re: VWFRR -- All Gone?

    Thanks for the information. I just stopped by the liquor store to pick up the bottles of Buffalo Trace, and what did I find on the shelf…they have 8 bottles of Van Winkle Family Reserve Rye! Its not listed on the State site that they had it, so it was a nice surprise. I picked up a couple (33.35 each). I am looking forward to giving it a try.
    If you other WA folks are interested it’s the store at 1302 6th Ave, in Seattle.

 

 

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