Jack Daniels

[Vision]

I don't have a lot of experience drinking Jack outside of my college days . However, I've read that JBeam Black has out ranked even JD single barrel in some tastings.

Considering the considerable price differences, it doesn't seem like a hard decision to make. Maybe I'm wrong...

[angelshare]

Gary - I feel validated by your tasting comments on JD, which are much more eloquently stated than my Big Mac/hamburger analogy!

After thinking about it, I think JD has captured a certain flavor with the charcoal filtering that I really like; GJ has it in spades, which I like even more. Dickel has a flavor that approaches it, but is not quite there for me.

In a way, could you liken it to McKendrick, the mesquite flavored whiskey? That flavor I did NOT like, but I could envision someone being drawn to it, as it is very distinctive.

[Gillman]

Dave, I have never tasted McKendrick but would like to. Personally, I like the burned wood taste that charcoal filtering can impart. It reminds me of the burned taste of Islay whiskey and (before I think you joined the board) I offered the theory that perhaps Craig and Crow, Scottish-Americans who are associated with developing (methodically) the aging of whiskey in charred barrels, may have been trying to emulate the peaty whisky they knew from back home. This might explain why new barrels were thus treated, for example. Last night I had a "dram" of JD Single Barrel and added a very little water, probably only enough to drop the proof to 85 or so. I found it improved the drink a lot, taking away a slight alcohol burn and deepening the lignin and smoky sweetness. It had a lot of depth, more than I would have thought possible, initially. Some Jacks (of either expression) are more smoky than others; I like the smoky ones and correlatively, like Dickels less which never really taste as smoky as JD can. Some bourbons aged much longer just don't get much smoke in them, e.g., Knob Creek; I like it still, for different reasons.

Gary

Nota bene: Maybe char and smoky flavors (including peat smoke) do not (chemically) alter the objectionable congeners but just cover them over.

[Bamber]

I like JD no7 a lot. I often think about how it would be received if it was a small batch product. Such a unique flavour. Now its a long long way from being my favourite whisky, but when I drink it I always enjoy it.

Cheers,

B.

[angelshare]

After a search, I found your earlier post. Interesting theory, which makes sense to me.

At the risk of belaboring this, I think those who dislike JD are just turned off by the "smoky" (great description) flavor you describe. I can't remember if it was LeNell or not, but someone in response to an earlier post of mine ranked GJ as their least favorite TN whiskey. This makes perfect sense to me, as I think GJ has the strongest smoky flavor.

Inspired by your post, I poured a GJ over ice last night and savored that smoky flavor. Then, for a change-up, I poured an Old Grand Dad 114 over ice. Apples and oranges, a completely different beverage. It was almost like going from...well, scotch to bourbon! Not exactly, but the contrast was huge.

I think those who grudgingly state preference for GD 12 if pressed probably do so because it tastes less like JD and more like bourbon than any of the TN whiskey choices. Once again, makes sense to me.

I guess the contingency from whom I don't recall hearing is those who LOVE GD over JD or bourbon. Jeff would probably argue that such a contingency should just buy some cheap bourbon and chew a mouthful of Flintstones vitamins before drinking to save some money.

If I recall correctly, you mentioned that Chuck feels the charcoal is a short-cut for aging, a cheat of sorts. Maybe so. That criticism is a great illustration of the artistry of American whiskey making. Making your own charcoal, filtering the whiskey through it over three days, determining when to change it by trained tasting, and aging for four years...and you can still be VALIDLY (I feel) challenged by experts as using a short cut. In our pre-packaged/disposable/fast food age, hearing that criticism is refreshing.

[Gillman]

These very pertinent comments inspired me to do an experiment. I poured a small tot of regular Jack Daniel's. Then ditto of Knob Creek. I added a very small amount (literally two eyedrops) of maple syrup to the Knob Creek. Remarkable how it brought the taste much closer to that of JD. I infer that it is not just the charred (charcoal-influenced) taste that makes JD what it is. It is the MAPLE wood charred taste. It is easy to forget that the charcoal through which Jack is famously filtered prior to barreling is burned maple wood, not oak wood. The lightly maple sugar-dosed Knob Creek did not taste exactly like Jack, but it tasted much closer to it than it did before the maple sugar addition. I am sure the same would result from adding a smidgeon of maple sugar to Old Grandad 114. Clearly maple sap caramelised and scorched by fire leaches into the whiskey in the Tennessee process adding its particular savour. Adding maple syrup to finished whiskey (maple sap concentrated by heavy boiling) is not quite the same thing but there is a similarity of flavour to a point. This suggests the flavour of Jack Daniels depends a lot on caramelised maple sugars. In this sense, while broadly part of the bourbon family, Tennessee whiskey really does seem a breed apart.

Gary

[Gillman]

Just an update on some work "vatting" Jack Daniels at home. I realise not everyone has the time or inclination to do these experiments, but I find the results quite interesting. This time, I used 50% Jack Black Label, 35% Jack Single Barrel, and 15% from a second bottle of Single Barrel. The Black Label was quite smoky tasting and rich, with the trademark aromatic quality of Jack. Some people call that taste "lacquer", or "liquorice", or "candy-like". The Single Barrel contributing the 35% was similarly aromatic but had less smoky character and less body. I liked it for its alcohol heft but it didn't otherwise match the flavor of the Black Label. The second Single Barrel was much bigger in body than the other one and had much less of the aromatic quality, it could almost pass for a bourbon. If tasted blind I think many people would think it was a bourbon. The combination of the three produced a blend different than each on its own. Very rich-tasting with good length and a backbone of alcohol bringing the brew to about 86% or so, maybe higher. It might even be better if I reversed the percentages of the Single Barrels. One might say why bother, since they are all from the same company and production method (more or less) and combining them is like ... going around in circles. Well, not really. I found a noticeable difference when comparing the vatting to the three components on their own. Sure they are all similar but taste differences are evident and the results would interest some tasters, I believe.

[cowdery]

At an event last night, we were tasting Gentleman Jack. All of the tasting samples, in wine glasses, had been poured before we arrived and topped with paper lids to concentrate the nose. When we "opened" the Gentleman Jack, Terry Sullivan--who was sitting next to me--and I looked at each other and grimaced. I've always described that first blast of Jack as solventy, like shellac. Terry said "turpentine," which I agree is closer to the mark.

As I thought about it later, I realized that I feel embarassed for Brown-Forman everytime they try to present Jack Daniel's as a fine spirit. I'm sorry, it just isn't.

The other products we sampled, on the other hand, surely were:

<ul type="square">[*]Appleton Estate Rum (One of the extra-aged expressions, I forget which). Very good; sweet, rich, with nice vanilla from the oak (refilled Jack Daniel's casks, by the way).[*]Woodford Reserve Distillers Select Bourbon.[*]Ardbeg Uigeadail Single Malt Scotch. Very smoky and flavorful, as unsubtle as a bourbon.[*]Amarula Cream Liqueur (from South Africa, made from the fruit of the Marula tree). Imagine Bailey's but instead of whiskey, something I can best describe as fig brandy for the underlying spirit.[/list]

[Speedy_John]

Chuck: Did anyone mention when the Ardbeg Uigeadail would be available? I've been awaiting its arrival for some time.

SpeedyJohn

[Gillman]

The shellac-like (I call it mint candy) scent surely must derive from maple charcoal leaching. What else could explain it if, as even B-F says, the product is made in every other way like Bourbon? I think combusted maple tree cellulose and sap must explain that taste. The fact that Gentleman shows even more of it than the other Jack Daniels suggests to me maple leaching explains the signature taste because as we know Gentleman gets a further filtration in the same substance even though it may not be as thorough as the pre-barreling leaching. I think though a second charcoal treatment may be too much of a good thing. The effect in the regular Jack and some of the Single Barrels is much less than in the Gentleman. I like Jack Daniel still, it is an acquired taste I think, especially when consumed neat. It is at its best in some of the Single Barrel bottlings. Some of those have much less of the candy-like scent and flavour than the Black Label and Gentleman and more, well, bourbon-like flavours. Also, the higher proof of the Single Barrel suits the taste profile of Jack Daniel (I am now coming to believe).

Gary