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Thread: Dickel 10 yr.

  1. #21

    Re:Where Has All The Dickel Gone?

    Linn, "...The Devil would get his due. Then we'd vat and proof and bottle and label and sell. "

    Uh, I don't think you understand what Bill's saying. I do. Yup, once us devils get our dues, there ain't gonna be enough left to moisten the labels.

    "...If we had 25 Bourbonians with say 2 grand a piece to throw in would this not be enough?"

    Sounds like a plan. I'll be treasurer. Can I count on your two grand right away to start us all off?


  2. #22
    Bourbonian of the Year 2002 and Guru
    Join Date
    Sep 1999

    Re:Where Has All The Dickel Gone?

    Regardless of what Diageo plans to do with its aging Dickel, (and if you have an aging Dickel you know how painful that can be) the fact is that there is plenty of bulk bourbon available for anyone who wants to create their own brand. As a person who has worked in the booze marketing biz, anyone who wants to undertake that will have all my moral support and probably some of my business, but no investment, thank you very much. It's a hard way to make money.

    On the other hand, groups like the Single Malt Whiskey Society started out as genuine "clubs," acquiring bulk whiskey and bottling it for the enjoyment of their own members. No retail distribution involved.

    I'm not enthusiastic about starting a brand because I'm pretty happy with the selection available to me as it is.

    --Chuck Cowdery

  3. #23

    Re:Where Has All The Dickel Gone?

    Bill do you really think you can drink Cascade Hollow dry?!

    John I'll bring my double grand down when we make the deal for the barrels, and then make the barrel selection. While you won't be permitted to participate in the actual selection of the barrels you would be required to lick all of the labels.

    Linn Spencer

    Have Shotglass. [IMG]/wwwthreads/images/smile.gif[/IMG] Will Travel.

  4. #24

    Re:Where Has All The Dickel Gone?

    Diageo has already succeeded in ruining the brand name (have you noticed how very good they are at that?) and now Cascade Hollow will fade into obscurity just like Michter's. Jolly Good Fun! What?

    Yes even if the stock market hasn't yet made a bottom you could much more easily make far more mony with much less downside risk just by investing in the S&P 500.

    The idea of a bourbon club has intrigued me for quite some time. I've always been interseted in being able to increase my purchasing power and buy more bourbon more cheaply. There are several ways to achive this end, and Creggor and have discussed this very issue.

    1) I believe it was Pary Source that offered him an additional 5% discount on a large purchase. Those of us that attend the festival may want to make that trip and pick up our bourbon there.

    2) We could go in together on the puchase of a barrel of Blanton's/Elmer T. Lee at Buffalo Trace. I'm sure we could get a better price if we took it in plain 1.75 l. bottles rather than fancy and expensive packaging.

    3) ditto that for L&G's Woodford Reserve.

    4) We might be able to strike a private deal with Julian for some number of his bottlings.

    5) ditto that for Charles Medley and his excellent Walthen's.

    Now this is a game worth playing!

    Linn Spencer

    Have Shotglass. [IMG]/wwwthreads/images/smile.gif[/IMG] Will Travel.

  5. #25

    Re: Dickel 10 yr.


    Do, by all means, grab a bottle of the 13 year old Old Charter Propriter's Reserve! It's superb in every way. I only wish it were still available here in Virginia.

    Linn Spencer

    Have Shotglass. [IMG]/wwwthreads/images/smile.gif[/IMG] Will Travel.

  6. #26

    Re:Where Has All The Dickel Gone?

    "John I'll bring my double grand down when we make the deal for the barrels, and then make the barrel selection."

    I think we'd better have our funds together and on-hand before we start negotiating for a price on those barrels.
    And there's a few other considerations that ought to be discussed if we're serious about this thing...

    (1) Two grand is just about $1,938 more George Dickel Special Reserve than I ever expect to want. Assuming that others in the Straightbourbon forum have similar requirements, there is going to be one hell of lot of leftover 10-year-old Tennessee Whisky (or Whisk<u>e</u>y... it won't be Dickel, so we don't need to honor that silly spelling quirk). So I suspect this isn't going to be the sort of "club purchase" Chuck mentioned; we're going to have <u>a lot</u> of Tennesse whiskey left over and if we're ever going to get our investment out of it we're going to have to become a full-fledged bottler, not unlike Mr. Van Winkle. I'm sure Julian can advise us on how simple and inexpensive a process THAT can be; and his experience is that of the son of a very influential Louisville Kentucky bourbon family. I'd bet that the Spencers of Virginia, or the Lipmans of Ohio, the Legges of Kansas, or the Cowderys of Illinois would find it far more difficult and expensive. That $2,000 would be barely a drop in the barrel.

    (2) Dickel 10-year-old Special Reserve wasn't exactly burning down the retailers' shelves anyway. I really enjoy it, and consider it an outstanding whisky, but I don't recall that the other whiskies were being threatened by crowds of customers trying to get at the Dickel.

    (3) The Special Reserve, good as it is, still bears the distinction of being the only George Dickel product that is NOT better than its Jack Daniel counterpart (single barrel in JD's case)...

    (4) ...Which brings up a very important point. Namely, that Dickel 10-year-old Special Reserve is NOT a single barrel whisky. So there aren't going to BE any "sugar barrels". In fact, there aren't even going to be any GOOD barrels. Like Wild Turkey's Rare Breed, Special Reserve is a mixture of many barrels, each with it's own unbalanced characteristics. And we're likely to need a LOT of them. If I remember correctly, Jimmy Russell uses ONLY 100 barrels per run for Rare Breed, which is considered an extremely small number for mixing. His ability to mix a first-class product with that few barrels is part of why he's a legend among his fellow distillers. I have no idea how many barrels Dave Backus uses in his mix, but it's not likely to be less than that. I don't know what prime Tennessee whiskey wholesales for, either, but if it goes for $3600/barrel (about half retail; you didn't think you were going to get it for cost, did you?), and if you could match Jimmy Russell's minimum requirements, you could get away with as little as $360,000. I think we'd better scare up a few more Straightbourbonheads than 25, don't you?

    Oh yeah, and just WHICH barrels were we going to select? Knowing which barrels to select, and how many of each age and type, for such a mix is what being a master distiller is all about. I don't know about you, but I'm sure reluctant to put $2,000 on the line to back up your (or my, or Chuck's, Mike's, etc.) mastery of bourbon mixing...

    (5) ...Unless you can convice Julian that he wants to add a line of Tennessee whiskey. He's a Straightbourbonhead; and NOBODY's better at picking or mixing than Julian. Of course, His current line is based on his family's involvement in the world of Kentucky whiskey, and I doubt that there's any connection at all with Tennessee whisky (except that Dickel was made at Stitzel/Weller for awhile during Prohibition). And, since we wouldn't be able to call our new product "George Dickel" or "Cascade", we'd have to "resurrect" a third old Tennessee distillery name (and pay for it), or make one up from scratch. You might want to get some feedback from Jim Razzino on this aspect, as that's pretty much what he's done with Thedford. He bought some existing stock of whiskey that isn't otherwise available to his intended customer base, bottled the product, and is marketing it under a fictitious but compositely-plausible name and history. And if we DON'T do something like that with our Special Reserve, we'll probably fail to sell any of it.

    "...While you won't be permitted to participate in the actual selection of the barrels you would be required to lick all of the labels."

    Well, as treasurer and holder of all the funds, I think I'd be the one to decide who'll do the pickin' and who'll do the lickin'. But we'll make sure you have plenty of good ol' limestone water to drink and keep your tongue moist.


  7. #27

    Re:Where Has All The Dickel Gone?

    John the point is moot, however you are wrong in many of your assumptions.

    Fist you simply do not understand the nature of a single purpose limited partnership, or the many ways in which it might be structured. I must, however, smile at your childish attempt to take control of something that as of yet dosen't exist. You remind me of the little boy that can't stand to loose and must, by all costs win, and therefore change the rules of the game in midstream. We adults call this "dirty pool".

    You keep on harping about the 10 y.o. botling of Dickle Reserve, and you further assert that there aren't any good/ sugar barrels. None at all?! Then this must mean that you've tasted every barrel and know for a fact that the whiskey is no good. Here's fact for you're ass - You're full of shit!

    Those of us who know John personally know that he is nothing if not egotistical. His shirt is stuffed with so much hot air and pomposity.

    The rest of his diatribe goes on and on in a never ending installment of "How to say little or nothing at all" in 500 words or more.

    The thing that bothers me most here John is that you are talking down your nose at both me and any forum reader. Your codescending attitude is malicious and I take graet umbrage to your insults and demand an apology!

    Linn Spencer

    Have Shotglass. [IMG]/wwwthreads/images/smile.gif[/IMG] Will Travel.

  8. #28

    Re:Where Has All The Dickel Gone?

    Well, folks, it appears Mr. Spencer, in his own inimitable (I sincerely hope) way, is again teaching us all a couple of valuable lessons. They are...

    (1) When exploring the wonders of bourbon (or Tennessee) whiskey, it's a good idea to know when to stop.
    (2) If you happen to miss lesson #1... For Criminy sakes, DON'T answer messages, especially ones you think were meant to offend you!

    Linn, despite occasional personal attacks (which indeed do make it hard NOT to feel condescending toward you), I highly respect your writing talent. I do NOT respect your constant solicitations for investment in one scheme or another, and my comments about your idea to corner the market on old George Dickel stock were offered semi-humorously (but still true). I'm sorry you felt personally offended (and I'm also sorry that Chinese pilot was lost), but it wasn't really about you, it was about an idea that (I believe) sucked big-time. I don't think the readers here (or you either, in less inebriated times) appreciate the name-calling and generally low-class tone of your message, and I implore new readers not to hastily judge your valuable contributions by what they've read here.

    Pompously and egotistically yours,




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