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  1. #11
    Bourbonian of the Year 2004 and Guru
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    Nelson County, Kentucky
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    Quote Originally Posted by barturtle
    As with scotch, the age statement is the youngest whiskey in the bottle. However, Julian has stated that the most recent batch had just barely reached its 23rd birthday, and I suspect that the previous batches would have been quite close that as well.
    Bourbon...If the label states 10 years old...the bourbon in that bottle cannot be "younger" than ten years old.

    You can add bourbon that is aged "older" than the age statement...but never under.
    Colonel Bettye Jo Boone
    Industrial Maintenance
    Technician/Journeyperson
    Heaven Hill Distilleries
    Bardstown, Kentucky

  2. #12
    Enthusiast
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    Jun 2005
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Michigan
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    479
    Quote Originally Posted by Brennan77
    This brings up a question I was asked the other day when showing off my bottle of PVW23. My friend asked, "well, why not longer?". Can the whisky just not take any more aging? Has it reached its absolute peak, or have they just not tried any longer?
    I think there are two reasons - well three if you include the cost of keeping inventory that long.

    First, the longer the whiskey ages, the less there is due to evaporation - the so-called "angel's share." I think that someone posted how little there was in the 23yo barrels - maybe less than 1/4?

    And then, yes, you can get too much woody, dry, tannic, bitter flavors from the wood. Since American straight whiskeys (other than corn) are aged in new oak, they cannot be kept in the barrel as long as scotch is, which is aged in used oak.

    Occasionally you will read a review of a whiskey that has been kept too long in the barrel, at least in the opinion of the reviewer. Recently, Chuck Cowdery wrote

    Last year at WhiskeyFest Chicago, Dave Pickerell did a presentation (he's the distiller at Maker's) in which one of the things he gave us to taste was Maker's at, I think, ten years old. Maybe it was twelve.

    Whatever it is, they are right not to sell it. If you doubt that 'older is not always better,' this will convince you. ... It was bitter.
    Aside from the US-marketed Van Winkle products, it has been primarily the Japanese that favored decades-old bourbons. HH has provided most of them, I think.

    Jeff
    "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943

  3. #13
    Advanced Taster
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    Nov 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria - Australia
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    229
    Good work Redvette!! So they are full of
    Well I'm glad I brought it to everyones attention, and I hope Julian pulls their supply!!
    Cheers all!!

    TK.(Troy)




  4. #14
    Bourbonian of the Year 2002 and Guru
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    Sep 1999
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    Chicago
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    12,616
    I met the guys who run Bourbon Bar the last time I was in Bardstown. They're nice, young guys and very enthusiastic about the subject, though they are just learning their way. I'm prepared to believe it was an honest mistake.

    As for anything older than Pappy 23, HH has a 25-year-old they sell in Japan.

    The thing about these very old bourbons--and 23-25 years is very, very old for a bourbon--is that they have to be almost artifically retarded to get that old without becoming too woody and, even more than woody, acrid and sooty. I characterize them as tasting the way you smell after you've been camping for a week.

  5. #15
    Connoisseur
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    Dec 2005
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    G'Town, TN
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    515

    Wink Japan, Tasting, & Smelling

    Quote Originally Posted by cowdery
    I characterize them as tasting the way you smell after you've been camping for a week.
    Aside from the US-marketed Van Winkle products, it has been primarily the Japanese that favored decades-old bourbons. HH has provided most of them, I think
    -Jeff

    Maybe they have no camping in Japan. They may not know the taste is the same as how we smell after a week in the outdoors.

    Wayne

  6. #16
    Connoisseur
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Near York, PA
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    897
    There was an HH 29 yo in Japan that I had years ago and there are a few 25 yo bourbons over there at the moment.

    Re: Angel's share is estimated at 1.75-2% per year for scotch. Some have to be much less based on a few of the single casks I have which are 30+ years old and still have bottle numbers in the 180's. out of 240 or so.
    Illuminati in training

  7. #17
    Advanced Taster
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    Nov 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria - Australia
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    229
    I would be interested in tasting these older bourbons, but it seems by the tasting notes left here that bourbon becomes more 'harsh'(for lack of a better word) than what scotch does.
    I have found in general that the older the scotch the EASIER it goes down....
    Ok, what I will do is do a side by side of a scotch and bourbon at same Alc/Vol and age and take notes, more focusing on the 'throat burn' and over woody flavours....

    TK.(Troy)




  8. #18
    Moderator and Bourbonian Of The Year 2014
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    Apr 2004
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    Brisbane Australia
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    2,897
    Apparently there are still some Pappy 20yo bottles in Australia....
    I'm not sure if this is old enough for you though?
    But at $400 each, it may be cheaper to import one from Binnys (even when you do pay Govt taxes to Customs)

  9. #19
    Advanced Taster
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    Nov 2005
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    Melbourne, Victoria - Australia
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    But at $400 each.......
    Thanks Cam but for that price Bar Items can order in 3 nearly 4 bottles... and I am a little under that price above with my prices also....

    Here is what I will start my sampling with, just have to find a partner for the PVW 20yr....??
    Attached Images Attached Images

    TK.(Troy)




  10. #20
    Connoisseur
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    May 2005
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    Near York, PA
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    Troy, I did do a review of one of the older Japanese only bourbons awhile back. You can read it here if you wish.
    Illuminati in training

 

 

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