Welcome to the Straightbourbon.com Forums.
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 21
  1. #11
    Bourbonian of the Year 2006
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Rockland County, NY
    Posts
    1,937

    You Can Buy White Dog

    Its called Moonshine.

    And no yeast or other sugars ferment in it after distillation.
    Yes there maybe proteins, but they no enzmes are active.
    Colonel Ed
    Bourbonian of the Year 2006

    Comissioned by Paul Patton, 1999

    "It ain't the booze that brings me in here, it's the solace it distills"

  2. #12
    Guru
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Moscow Mills, MO
    Posts
    2,507
    Quote Originally Posted by pepcycle
    Yes there maybe proteins, but they no enzmes are active.

    I agree there may be proteins but aren't those mostly from whatever flies into the jug and can't get out?
    Dane
    I don't drink to excess. But I'll drink to most anything else.

  3. #13
    Bourbonian of the Year 2003 and Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    2,942
    For us white dog is an obsession. Why? The forbidden fruit?
    It is because the flavors in white dog are always present in the bourbon, they merely get overlaid with oak and time in barrel. A taste of white dog when compaired to aged spirit really sheds light on barrel and aging effects.
    A good taste memory of White Dog serves as a good yardstick for determining age/maturity.

    As for the original jest of this post, just forget it. The fellow that told me that has impressive creditials that should trump homebrewing and writing.

    As far as moonshine being the same thing, thats a bit of a stretch. The fermented mash is a long way from Creamed Corn and Dixie Crystals.
    ___Bobby Cox___
    ____________

    May you have wonderful things thought of to do...

  4. #14
    Bourbonian of the Year 2011
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    9,186
    Bobby ,what about Georgia Moon though? It may not contain rye but a bourbon mash does not have to contain rye. Possibly it is made in a way to ensure the PH does not cause the problem mentioned by the expert you mentioned.

    I still believe fermentation is possible in both bottles and cask. Why assume that the environment in either is always 40% abv or higher? Is it 40% abv in the head or neck space of the barrel or bottle? It is easy to conceive that wild yeast can ferment, say, caramelised sugars on or near the interior surface of the barrel not touched by liquid. Head space goes down, what, a third or so in the first year in a barrel? Is the head space occupied by some alcohol vapor? Maybe (and maybe not) but at what concentration? I do not rule out that some yeasts can in fact survive distillation (some of those small critters are very resilient and can survive 25% abv environment as we see from that special beer, Utopia, made by Samuel Adams); or that some enzyme survives which can convert wood or cork starches in barrels or bottles to sugar whence wild yeast can attack it. I have had some bottles of whiskey which when opened show a light fizz, many of us have noticed this I believe. Where does the carbonic gas come from? Some of it might come from the original ferment (I read this too somewhere) but some might result from fermentation somewhere on the barrel interior not touched by liquid (which as we know can be like that for years if the barrel is not moved, and even when dumped the fizz might just stay in, like in a bourbon and soda).

    Gary

  5. #15
    Bourbonian of the Year 2010 and Guru
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Kentucky!
    Posts
    4,750
    Is the head space occupied by some alcohol vapor? Maybe (and maybe not) but at what concentration?
    I would think that the liquid vapor content would actually be higher than the ABV of the liquid in the bottle/barrel. Alcohol evaporates at a higher rate than water at the same temperature. Also any stray humidity that would have been present when the bottle was filled would have been absorbed by the whiskey in the bottle due to alcohol being hydroscopic.

    An interesting thought on the slight fizz issue, could these bottles have been filled at a lower altitude(or even on a day with a high barometric pressure) than when/where they were opened causing a pressure release-much like the pressure causing your ears to pop on a drive through the mountains. That pressure would have disolved gas(the atmospheric nitrogen/oxygen/oxides of carbon we breathe everyday) into the whiskey that would "boil" out of the liquid once the pressure is released.
    2010 Bourbonian of the Year

    As long as you have good whiskey you're not "unemployed", you're "Funemployed!!!"

    I'm no Pappyophile

  6. #16
    Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Michigan
    Posts
    479
    Quote Originally Posted by barturtle
    An interesting thought on the slight fizz issue, could these bottles have been filled at a lower altitude(or even on a day with a high barometric pressure)
    This was a thought I had as well. Here is a photo of a bunch of plastic 1.75 L bottles of Kentucky Tavern I found at the Party Source in Bellevue, KY last year. They were apparently filled at higher pressure (or temperature), and collapsed when the temperature or pressure dropped. Note the tilted, collapsed necks.

    If they had been bottled in glass at high pressure rather than low, they might well bubble when opened.

    Jeff
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by JeffRenner; 03-07-2006 at 19:32.
    "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943

  7. #17
    Bourbonian of the Year 2011
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    9,186
    Those Kentucky Taverns look like all the bottles looked at the end of that party at Cliff's. Either that or Dali did a painting I'm not familiar with.

    I don't know about the second paragraph of Tim's post and Jeff's follow-up, but I do not agree at all with Tim's suggestion in the first paragraph.

    Ethanol vaporises at 78.3 degrees C. Even in a warm warehouse (and it isn't warm all year) the average temperature in a barrel is nowhere near that.

    Yes, alcohol will evaporate at lower temps but very slowly, the concentration in the head space will not be close to 40% of the volume in my opinion.

    Gary
    Last edited by Gillman; 03-07-2006 at 18:42.

  8. #18
    Bourbonian of the Year 2010 and Guru
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Kentucky!
    Posts
    4,750
    Actually I was referring to the amount of liquid vapor in the headspace, not counting the normal atmospheric gases. Assuming the airspace reaches maximum vapor level before condensation, I would think the alcohol level would be higher than the water level.

    Water doesn't vaporize until 100C and it also vaporizes slowly at lower temps, but at a much slower rate than the alcohol at the same temp, thus I would think that the airspace would reach maximum vapor density from the alcohol before the water would have a chance to evaporate to fill that space.
    2010 Bourbonian of the Year

    As long as you have good whiskey you're not "unemployed", you're "Funemployed!!!"

    I'm no Pappyophile

  9. #19
    Bourbonian of the Year 2011
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    9,186
    Tim this may be so, this is a technical question I can't answer, but isn't the real question what the concentration of the alcohol is in relation to those other gases including oxygen? Is it so high as to kill or render ineffective any ambient yeast in those gases? Bearing in mind the porosity of the barrel and the cracks and leaks most barrels are subject to, it seems unlikely to me that the amount of alcohol vapour is high enough to render yeast action inert, but I don't know. I wonder if echochem has an opinion.

    Gary
    Last edited by Gillman; 03-08-2006 at 07:21.

  10. #20
    Bourbonian of the Year 2004 and Guru
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Nelson County, Kentucky
    Posts
    2,735
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffRenner
    This was a thought I had as well. Here is a photo of a bunch of plastic 1.75 L bottles of Kentucky Tavern I found at the Party Source in Bellevue, KY last year. They were apparently filled at higher pressure (or temperature), and collapsed when the temperature or pressure dropped. Note the tilted, collapsed necks.

    If they had been bottled in glass at high pressure rather than low, they might well bubble when opened.

    Jeff
    Heat will make the fill point rise. The volume will rise---It will pop the cork out of a wax sealed bottle easily. On really hot days, and on the rare occasion that we pump directly from a exterior tank...I have to raise the fill point at least 5 points depending on the bottle size. This is rare but it does occur. Maybe this could cause a "bent neck"? I really don't know "for sure" if there's enough force to cause that, naturally.

    Another reason for the a bent neck and possibly getting a "vacuum" while opening a plastic bottle? Trans grip arm (and side saddles) being to tight on the capper. If it's too tight "while being capped" the bottle compresses and the fill point will be too high. The bent neck will occur in last phase in bottling---at the "packer"---When the "plunger" holds the first two bottles in place (before they (6) drop in the box) the necks will push down and stay that way. This does not happen very often, but it does occur.

    This is one of many things that I troubleshoot on the lines, from time to time

    Bettye Jo
    Colonel Bettye Jo Boone
    Industrial Maintenance
    Technician/Journeyperson
    Heaven Hill Distilleries
    Bardstown, Kentucky

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Back to top