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  1. #1
    Bourbonian of the Year 2011
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    Packaging Question

    Recently I bought a 200 ml bottle of Jack Daniel's. I use it for vatting and blending (I have two bottles going comprised of varying quantities of about 10 bottles of Jack Black and about 3 of JD Single Barrel - the vattings are really good, deep, soft and rich - as good as Jack can get).

    I noticed that under the black plastic cap is a white liner, it keeps falling out when I open the bottle.

    I can't recall another whiskey using this kind of liner although I am sure there are examples.

    My question is, why is this used? If I discarded it the black cap would close the bottle just as well.

    I think the white cap originally sealed the top (aperture) of the bottle and after initial removal is now sticking to the underside of the cap. Maybe that is the explanation.

    But why is it necessary to cover the aperture in this way?

    Does anyone know who is familiar with packaging techniques, maybe Bettye Jo?

    Gary
    Last edited by Gillman; 03-09-2006 at 17:51.

  2. #2
    Bourbonian of the Year 2004 and Guru
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gillman
    Recently I bought a 200 ml bottle of Jack Daniel's. I use it for vatting and blending (I have two bottles going comprised of varying quantities of about 10 bottles of Jack Black and about 3 of JD Single Barrel - the vattings are really good, deep, soft and rich - as good as Jack can get).

    I noticed that under the black plastic cap is a white liner, it keeps falling out when I open the bottle.

    I can't recall another whiskey using this kind of liner although I am sure there are examples.

    My question is, why is this used? If I discarded it the black cap would close the bottle just as well.

    I think the white cap originally sealed the top (aperture) of the bottle and after initial removal is now sticking to the underside of the cap. Maybe that is the explanation.

    But why is it necessary to cover the aperture in this way?

    Does anyone know who is familiar with packaging techniques, maybe Bettye Jo?

    Gary
    Hi Gary

    Lined caps We have strict guide lines to follow in the use of lined caps. At Heaven Hill, all "EXPORT" bottlings will have lined caps. All Copa De Ore will have lined caps

    Years ago, we kept getting complaints that the caps were "loose"---on the EXPORT bottlings. Investigation proved that the torque was at speck and it must have been a random maintenance issue in that particular run. A close watch was given and "still" more complains came thru. We knew without a doubt that those caps were at the proper torque during bottling and yet some of the caps were loose at delivery.

    To summarize a long story...Heaven Hill's investigation proved that during decompression in the chamber's flight the caps were losened. This was after sending samples, some lined and some unlined...The problems subsided after changing over to the lined caps The botting "torque" will not change if you use a lined cap.

    As for the Copa? I learned from maintenance trouble shooting on my line the importance of lined caps. During packing---actual dropping of the bottles into the case---when the fingers let a bottle slip and hit the floor, the unbroken ones sometimes had a "high cap"...The operator would call me to address the "capper problem". I'd watch and test the torque and test and test but all was normal with the capper.

    Copa is thick, dark and sticky...It's a big mess when a bottle breaks (or leaks) on that line...a real mess!

    Finally, I knew I had to look elsewhere. No line inspector had seen a "cap" problem so I knew it was positively at the packer.

    The final result? The force from the fall to the floor---landing straight up will loosen the cap evertime...

    And...I know some of you are wondering, about a bottle that hits the concrete floor and does not break? Don't get me wrong, some break, but there are lots that don't There's a special "coating" on the exterior of the bottle that gives it strength and helps it slide during botting to get from point A to point B without drag...You can't see it but it's there The coating is so strong on my 1.75 bottles that when a bottle is hung in the cleaner, sometimes I have to hit it with a hammer "twice" to break it

    When that coating is not there?...Well, Heaven Hill gets "more" than their money's worth outta me that night

    Bettye Jo
    Last edited by boone; 03-10-2006 at 12:20.
    Colonel Bettye Jo Boone
    Industrial Maintenance
    Technician/Journeyperson
    Heaven Hill Distilleries
    Bardstown, Kentucky

  3. #3
    Bourbonian of the Year 2011
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    Thanks Bettye Jo, very interesting. Is the white liner flush to the underside of the cap? Or does it sit right on the glass bottle rim. I should remember from that 200 ml bottle but I can't.

    Gary

  4. #4
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    The liner isn't glued to the cap?

    Mike

  5. #5
    Bourbonian of the Year 2011
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    Bettye Jo will know the answer if this is an industry-wide practice for some exports anyway. It may be glued under the cap but I know I've opened some bottles where it's on the glass rim and "holds" there. Either it has fallen from beneath the cap underside and the bit of glue on the liner or the sugars in the whiskey can hold it there - I know I've peeled off some liners from the glass rim - or maybe it's placed there to begin with. Without buying another 200 ml JD I can't recall where the liner "should" be, I think you are right though, probably it is glued flush to the underside of the cap, maybe Bettye Jo can clarify.

    I wonder in any case why the torque of the cap would be affected by such liners, but clearly they are based on the tests!

    The thing I don't follow (regardless of where the liner is placed) is why export bottles are treated in this fashion.

    Most shipments would go by ship I would think, in container loads, and pressurised holds would not be an issue.

    Gary
    Last edited by Gillman; 03-11-2006 at 05:56.

  6. #6
    Bourbonian of the Year 2004 and Guru
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    Most shipments would go by ship I would think, in container loads, and pressurised holds would not be an issue.

    Gary[/quote]

    Yes Gary , what goes on in the chamber during travel "was" the issue I always double check to make sure I get things right before I post After the use of lined caps the problem stopped completely

    The liners that we use are not glued They are made slightly larger than the cap and they "pop" in. They are not supposed to fall out of the cap...

    We ran a "very small" order of Martin Mills "Straight Rye"---EXPORT---It was a new label, bright yellow. It required a bright yellow cap. We didn't have any lined yellow caps. It was a small crew of three, that had to put those liners in every single cap That's how important a lined cap (for EXPORT) is...at Heaven Hill

    As for the rest of the industry using lined caps? I don't know the answer. Obviously Jack Daniels uses them and you are in Canada (EXPORT) ? Hmmmmmmm...

    Japan, requires that a lined cap be used in their bottlings

    Bettye Jo
    Last edited by boone; 03-11-2006 at 09:15.
    Colonel Bettye Jo Boone
    Industrial Maintenance
    Technician/Journeyperson
    Heaven Hill Distilleries
    Bardstown, Kentucky

  7. #7
    Bourbonian of the Year 2011
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    Okay I see, thanks, but what's a "chamber"?

    Gary

  8. #8
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    It would seem that these cap liners have the same effect on torque as a lock washer does on a bolt, it keeps the torque much more contstant and therefore the cap tight. I remember a firefighter friend of mine from upstate New York telling me of a train wreck he went to a number of years back. A container train from Montreal had derailed and a number of the containers contained alcohol. The containers were cut open by the ATF and any broken bottles were accounted for by picking up the caps. He mentioned that most of the caps were still attached to broken bottle necks. this would indicate that the bottles gave way before the caps sprung off in the wreckage, more than likely due to cap liners.

    Thomas

 

 

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