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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by gr8erdane
    I can understand a reluctance on the old decanters but I did get an Old Cabin Still decanter off eBay a year or so ago that I find to be very nice whiskey. The cork disintegrated when I opened it but it had stayed reasonably intact enough to seal in all the goodness with no harshness left. I believe it was in a Ducks Unlimited decanter in the same style as the SW Irish series. (Not bad for a ten dollar bid back before the snipers started bushwhacking me.)
    yeah I prefer to stick to bottles if I can. I've had a few bad corks on some old bottles but the bourbon was still great as well. Most of the old stuff I've bought and tasted has been well worth it.
    "That rug really tied the room together" -- Jeffery Lebowski

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNbourbon
    [LIST][*]Very Special Old Fitzgerald 12yo (BHC -- early Louisville label)
    Following up on a question from a month or two ago - is there a way to distinguish an "early" Louisville label from a "later" Louisville label? I have two bottles of VSOF12 that appear identical - both have Louisville labels ("Distilled, aged and bottle by Old Fitzgerald Distillery, Inc. / Louisville, Jefferson County, Kentucky") and BHC seals.

    UPC for both is 880076 22640

    In very small font on the bottom right corner of the front label, there is a code: SL 16.905.01.00

    On the back label, there is a similar code in very small font in the bottom left corner: SL 27.905.01.00

    On the bottle, below the back label there is a code in grey font: HMO21971.
    The 2 is offset a bit lower than the other figures so that it appears as HMO/2/1971. I'm not sure if the O is the letter O or a zero.


    So, do these bottles contain Stitzel-Weller whiskey?

    Thanks,
    Dan
    Last edited by Sijan; 06-24-2006 at 01:47.
    -Dan

    Who stole the cork from my breakfast?

  3. #43
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    Pappy 15 and 20

    Where are the current incarnations of Pappy 15 and 20 from? From SW or another distillery? If they are from somewhere else is there a way to tell where my bottle(s) from?
    And if they are from SW why are the newer 23's from somewhere else?

    Thanks all.
    Tim

    To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.

  4. #44
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    Tim,

    The current Pappy 15 & 20 are S-W whiskey.

    What do you mean when you say Pappy 23 is from somewhere else? It is bottled at the Buffalo Trace distillery in Frankfort - as all Van Winkle bourbons have been for several years now - from S-W stock.

    Cheers,
    Dan
    -Dan

    Who stole the cork from my breakfast?

  5. #45
    Bourbonian of the Year 2007
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    Exclamation

    Lest there be any confusion, some of the bourbon bottled as VanWinkle has -- from at least as early as the green glass Pappys -- included whiskey not distilled by S-W. Today, as well, the product line includes non-S-W bourbon.

    It's also a myth that all VanWinkles have been wheaters. I recommend to all the healthy use of the search function on this site. The histories of the various VanWinkle bottlings have been discussed ad nauseum here in the past.
    Last edited by Barrel_Proof; 06-24-2006 at 10:37.
    ____ ____
    Barrel_Proof

  6. #46
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    A bit of reading comprehension is in order. The abbreviated version of my quote above is taken out of context and interpreted incorrectly because of the use of the ellipses. The clause in between the dashes comes after "bottled at the Buffalo Trace distillery in Frankfort" and not "from S-W stock," thereby incorporating the former but not the latter. Thus, "all" referred to all recent Van Winkle bourbons being bottled at the Buffalo Trace distillery in Frankfort, not necessarily all being S-W whiskey.

    I'm well aware that the first batch of Pappy 23 was not S-W whiskey or even wheated whiskey. In addition, my understanding is that the more recent ORVW 10 yrs are not S-W, and that the Lot B is no longer being produced from S-W, as of July 2005. If other VW bourbons are not S-W, please let us know.

    In response to Tim's question about "the newer 23s", I stated that the most it is made from S-W stock. Is this not correct? Is the current batch of Pappy 23 not entirely made up of S-W bourbon??
    Last edited by Sijan; 06-24-2006 at 09:52.
    -Dan

    Who stole the cork from my breakfast?

  7. #47
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    It could also be that a bit of consideration for the reader is in order. I took two runs at your latest post and gave up before I achieved, as you say, comprehension.

    I'm reasonably familiar with words such as "ellipses", "clause", etc., so my difficulty does not arise there. Perhaps it's the word "above", which failed to help me find "the abbreviated . . .", that is the root of the problem. A peripheral factor may be my use of the hybrid mode when viewing posts. Perhaps "above" has more significance in other modes, but at this point I'm too tired to experiment.

    Could it be that near-record high temperatures (which caused my wife to cancel our plans to attend an outdoor bluegrass festival in Prescott) here in central Arizona are eroding my legendary tolerance and good will? I won't rule it out.

    Yours truly,
    Dave " 'Communicate' is a Transitive Verb" Morefield
    Yours truly,
    Dave Morefield

    Dog Lover, Euphonium Player, Campfire Guitarist, Marksman,

  8. #48
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    I think it probably didn't make much sense when you read it because the post I referred to had been edited, and thus no longer contains the misquote to which I was responding.

    Regardless, it's a grammatical rule that's difficult to explain, and I don't even know the right grammatical terms to do so.

    This sentence, from my previous post (#44 in this thread), was the one in question:
    "It is bottled at the Buffalo Trace distillery in Frankfort - as all Van Winkle bourbons have been for several years now - from S-W stock."

    This quote had been incorrectly reduced to "all...from S-W stock."

    I was simply explaining why that sentence should not be interpreted (because of grammar rules) as meaning that all Van Winkle bourbons were from S-W stock, but rather that all Van Winkle bourbons have been bottled in Frankfort for several years now.
    Last edited by Sijan; 06-24-2006 at 15:51.
    -Dan

    Who stole the cork from my breakfast?

  9. #49
    Bourbonian of the Year 2002 and Guru
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    These things seem to get more complicated than they need to be. Virtually every drop of whiskey made at Stitzel-Weller was wheated bourbon. There is some reason to believe there may have been some rye-recipe bourbon produced there, but it was a drop in the barrel. Ninety-nine times out of one-hundred, if it was made at Stitzel-Weller it was wheated bourbon.

    Likewise, virtually every bourbon that has been sold under the Van Winkle name, whether "Old Rip," "Family Reserve," or "Pappy" has been wheat-recipe and all of it, until recently, has been from the Shively distillery we refer to here as Stitzel-Weller.

    There was at least one, possibly more than one, instance of a Pappy Van Winkle product that was not wheated and not produced at Stitzel-Weller but, again, a drop in the barrel.

    Finally, a few years ago, as the supply of Stitzel-Weller whiskey became depleted, Julian Van Winkle threw in with Buffalo Trace and moved his operation there. Currently, his source for wheated bourbon is the Bernheim Distillery now owned by Heaven Hill. Buffalo Trace has been producing wheated bourbon as well and as their stocks mature, it will be Buffalo Trace product in the bottles instead of Bernheim.

    When it first became necessary to use non-Stitzel (i.e., Bernheim) whiskey in a regular Van Winkle product, Julian conveniently converted the Old Rip Van Winkle 15-year-old into a Pappy Van Winkle. From that point forward, the "Old Rip" (limited then to the 10-year-old) brand would be Bernheim wheated bourbon and the Pappy would all remain Stitzel.

    What is confusing and can't really be helped, is that there is old stock "out there" in the marketplace, and there are various rules and tricks for determining where it was made, but they are not necessarily foolproof.

    You have a couple of assurances, however:

    1. Julian Van Winkle don't sell no crap. If it says, "Van Winkle," it's got to be good.

    2. No Old Rip 15-year-old was made with non-Stitzel whiskey. If you find an Old Rip 15-year-old, it's Stitzel Weller.

  10. #50
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    I'm curious as to what extent the W.L. Weller 12 year old was ever made from S-W whiskey? Any way to distinguish current Weller 12 from the S-W batches, if there were any.

    Thanks in advance for your answer(s).
    -Dan

    Who stole the cork from my breakfast?

 

 

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