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Thread: Scotch Bourbon?

  1. #1
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    Angry Scotch Bourbon?

    IN WHISKY MAGAZINE. ISSUE 55, I THINK IN CAME IN THE MAIL LAST WEEK-ON PAGE 60, UNDER THE TITLE "NEW RELEASES" THE FIRST OFFERING IS "LONGMORN BOURBON, 46% "PRODUCED IN SPEYSIDE. CAN ANYBODY EXPLAIN TO ME-OR THE COURTS- WHY THIS CAN BE LABELED A BOURBON?????????????????????? SPEYSIDE IS IN SCOTLAND STILL-IS IT NOT?? berncow-Rick

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by BERNCOW
    IN WHISKY MAGAZINE. ISSUE 55, I THINK IN CAME IN THE MAIL LAST WEEK-ON PAGE 60, UNDER THE TITLE "NEW RELEASES" THE FIRST OFFERING IS "LONGMORN BOURBON, 46% "PRODUCED IN SPEYSIDE. CAN ANYBODY EXPLAIN TO ME-OR THE COURTS- WHY THIS CAN BE LABELED A BOURBON?????????????????????? SPEYSIDE IS IN SCOTLAND STILL-IS IT NOT?? berncow-Rick
    Amazing, isn´t it? Apparently they found a loophole in US jurisdiction and imported a rickhouse built in Kentucky and, hey presto!, a Bourbon.

    Seriously, Rick, I think this is a case of lazy printing. The full text should read Longmorn Bourbon cask. Longmorn is a Highland single malt . It has nothing to do with Bourbon.
    Last edited by Hedmans Brorsa; 05-15-2006 at 09:10.
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  3. #3
    Bourbonian of the Year 2002 and Guru
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    I agree that the reference to "bourbon" is to the cask. Though to ask a slightly different question, why do some single malts call out the fact that they are aged in bourbon casks when virtually all scotch is aged in bourbon casks? I can see calling out when they aren't, such as the Famous Grouse on the facing page that calls out Scottish Oak.

    On the other hand, why do some American whiskeys put "sour mash" on their label when they are all sour mash? The answer, I suppose, is that you have to put something.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowdery
    I why do some single malts call out the fact that they are aged in bourbon casks when virtually all scotch is aged in bourbon casks?
    Chuck,

    I´m certainly no expert on this so I could be all wrong, but I think that Scotch which is 100 % Bourbon cask is much less dominant than you´d expect it to be.

    If I understood it right, there are quite a few examples of Scotch that consists of, say, vattings of 80% Bourbon cask and 20% Sherry cask. Alternatively, the whisky sleeps in Bourbon casks for 12 years only to be transferred to a Sherrry one for the remaining two years or so.

    Many distillers, I believe practise this, to inject som extra fizz (or whatever) into the whisky.
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  5. #5
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    Well have I got one for you guys to think about...although it may have already been discussed, such as the WT Sherry(this I am still a little uncertain about if it has been finished in a sherry cask or had it actually added to the bourbon...??)....
    Here in Oz we have - Jim Beam Small Batch Bourbon. It quite possibly is a true small batch however as US Law defines bourbon, this bottling is NOT!!
    It has written on the label - WITH PORT ADDED
    Here is a good case theory - Jim Beam in the US to sue Jim Beam in Oz.

    Here is a quote from a website retailing this bottle....
    Jim Beam Small Batch Bourbon is a further extension of the four super premium Bourbons previously released by Jim Beam in the "Small Batch Bourbon Collection" – namely Bookers, Bakers, Knob Creek & Basil Haydens. Each Small Batch Bourbon is distinctively different. This unusual addition is hand bottled in limited quantities with some port added
    Is this bottle in the US?? Or is it just an export for Oz?
    Attached Images Attached Images

    TK.(Troy)




  6. #6
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    I haven't seen it, though that does not mean it's not available. Is it... good?
    -Sam

  7. #7
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    The Jim Beam port has actually been discussed quite a lot.

    http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbth...=jim+beam+port

    http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbth...=jim+beam+port

    To my knowledge, it is only available in Australia. Possibly in New Zealand as well. I donīt know how much their markets overlap.
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  8. #8
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    I have a bottle of WT sherry signature and it states on the label " enhanced with sherry". In addition, on a recent visit to Wild Turkey, I was told that this product has sherry added to it!

    Thomas

  9. #9
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    Is it... good?
    - Not sure, I will report back in a few hours
    I am going to go and get a bottle....

    enhanced with sherry...
    So it is confirmed then...?WT Sherry signature is not finished in sherry casks but has had sherry added.
    In my personal opinion, I find this a bad practice! If distilleries want to release a variant to their whiskies, then I firmly believe that the only way a whisk(e)y should be varied is by the cask only!!
    Why add other spirits, this only takes away from the actual product!!

    Attention All Whisk(e)y Producers....if you add another spirit other than the same spirit when blending/vatting, then it's NOT whisk(e)y!!!!

    If WT wanted to release a 'sherry' variant, then they should have finished the whiskey in a sherry cask and not added it! I know that even still by US law this is not a bourbon, but it's a hell of a lot more bourbon then having sherry added!! Same goes for Jim Beam and their Port variant.

    I can safely say that if I was a Master Distiller and the company bosses wanted me to do something like that, I would tell them to go and eat a nice big meal of

    I don't want to offend any1(except the company owners!!), especially the Master Distillers!! I did read here that J. Russell was quite unhappy about the WT Sherry Signature, my only question is why did Jimmy let them go ahead and do it?
    Anyway that's my 2 cents worth

    TK.(Troy)




  10. #10
    Bourbonian of the Year 2002 and Guru
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    Most of the barrels used in Scotland are American oak that originally held bourbon. This is the practice because used bourbon barrels are the cheapest barrels you can buy, even including the cost of knocking them down, shipping them, and recoopering them.

    Sherry casks, when they are used, are used as a finish, i.e., the whisky is transferred to the sherry casks for some brief period of time to complete its aging. In other words, sherry casks and other "exotic" casks are strictly used for finishing. The day-in-and-day-out wood used is Scotland is old bourbon casks.

    Normally, what they call the first refill is with grain whiskey, which probably will be used for some kind of blend. This "de-bourbonizes" the barrel. The second and subsequent refills will be with malt. Barrels are used over and over, until they become so spent they start to lose physical integrity.

    It is possible that the Longmorn single malt that started this discussion was aged or finished in a first refill bourbon cask, which would be unusual and worthy of note.
    Last edited by cowdery; 05-16-2006 at 17:53.

 

 

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