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  1. #11
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    The distillery in Shively is now the Brown-Forman Distillery. This reflects the fact that they have moved the still from the downtown distillery where they made Old Forester (DSP 414), to the Early Times Distillery (DSP 354). The stills are what registered, not the building, so they were able to transfer the DSP No. as well as the still. They stand side by side in the distillery building in Shively. The Old Forester still is more narrow than the Early Times column.

    Mike Veach

  2. #12
    Bourbonian of the Year 2002 and Guru
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    I also learned that they can operate the two stills simultaneously, in parallel.

    There have been many things said about why the distillery's name was changed. I think it was mainly because it doesn't do the image of Old Forester or Woodford Reserve any good to say they are made at the Early Times Distillery, since Early Times has become such a downscale product. In their defense, though, it did cause some confusion.

  3. #13
    Bourbonian of the Year 2010 and Guru
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    So does the distillery have the option of registering each still under the same number or seperate numbers, or is this a unique case? IIRC, BT uses the same registry for both its bourbon still and its vodka still.
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  4. #14
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    This is not the first time this has happened. Bernheim is actually DSP No. 1 and No.2 since they combined the stills from both the Belmont and Astor distilleries. These two distilleries were seperate buildings at the same location at 17th and Breckinridge before Schenley combined them in the 1930's. Stitzel-Weller could have been DSP 17 if they had not sold the still and everything else at their Story Avenue distillery to Frankfort Distillery in 1935. They could transfer the registration number as long as the old distillery was completely closed down otherwise the number went with the new owners. They decided to find a number as close as possible to 17 for the new distillery and 16 was available.

    Mike Veach

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bourbonv
    The stills are what registered, not the building, so they were able to transfer the DSP No. as well as the still. They stand side by side in the distillery building in Shively. The Old Forester still is more narrow than the Early Times column.

    Mike Veach
    This is an interesting statement. I had no idea that if stills moved they took their registry number along.

    Has BF ever chosen to put 414 on the label since moving to Shively? My BIB bottles with apparent bottle dates from 88, 91, and 95 all call out "Distiller DSP KY 354" and "Bottler DSP KY 414."

    Any Forester 100 proof I have newer than that doesn't state a DSP, and the BIB bottles older than that state "Distilled and Bottled by DSP KY 414." It would appear that either BF didn't use the narrow Forester still at some times or just chose not to call out the Distillery as 414 if they used the narrow still at the Shively plant.

    An interesting mystery...

    Roger

  6. #16
    Bourbonian of the Year 2002 and Guru
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    What Roger is describing is more how I would understand it. Since the bottling plant at 850 Dixie Highway has to be licensed, I would assume that 414 is the bottling plant and 354 is the distillery. Perhaps they can use the registration numbers however they choose, but it seems reasonable that they would use 414 where they need it, the bottling house, and not at 354, where they don't.

    Daniel's is bottled in Lynchburg and Woodford is bottled in Versailles, but everything else is bottled at 850 Dixie Highway. There is no bottling house at the distillery.

  7. #17
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    Old Forester Signature or 100 Proof, however you wish to refer to it as, is not a bonded bourbon anymore, so they don't place a DSP number on the label. They do have bottling operations in Shively, but only for their ready to drink cocktails such as Jack and Coke. That building also houses the miniature stills that were the prototypes for Woodford Reserve. They still use them to make experimental batches of whiskey.

    According to what I read in the Van Winkle papers at the U D Archive, a DSP no. is for the still. If you move your still to a new location it remains with the still. If you sell the still to another person or company, then the number goes with the still and that is why Stitzel-Weller is DSP 16 instead of 17. Frankfort Distillery kept the DSP 17 when they bought the Stitzel Distillery on Story Avenue. At Bernheim, they have DSP 1 and DSP 2 because these stills were registered at seperate distilleries before they placed side by side in the New Bernheim distillery after prohibition With DSP 1 being Belmont and DSP 2 being Astor. There was evidently some market value to doing this since they could have eleminated one DSP No. if Schenley had wished to do so and simply called them both DSP 1. This is allowed in the regulations.

    Stitzel-Weller has two column stills. The second still was placed in the distillery during WWII to increase alcohol production during the war. They simply added it to the DSP 16 registration. They did not see any value of having two DSP numbers.

    Brown-Forman evidently has decided to keep the Old Forester still's DSP Number seperate. I suspect that this was done for marketing reasons.


    Mike Veach

  8. #18
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    I too had been looking for some info on DSP numbers and found this thread. I was doing research on what distilleries operated in Bourbon Co. KY. I also had some pre-prohibition bottles with DSP numbers I couldn't find anywhere. I dug up this picture that i took at the BT distillery museum. It has some pretty good info. I wish I had the entire list. I work in Frankfort, so I may stop in later this week and get some more detailed pictures of this list. Here is what I have right now. After clicking the link, click the picture to enlarge. I hope this is helpful to some of you.
    http://jimmyshaw.com/gallery/bourbon/DSC03265
    Last edited by shaggy; 10-22-2006 at 13:36.
    "Too much of anything is bad, but too much of good whiskey is barely enough." -Mark Twain

  9. #19
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    Question Re: DSP Code Numbers

    I purchased a lone bottle of Rittenhouse BIB Rye 100 proof I found today. On the back label it states "Distilled by D.S.P. KY 31 and bottled by Continental Distilling Co., Bardstown, KY" Earlier in this thread it was mentioned that only bottling takes place at D.S.P. 31 now. I wondered if anyone would know if this is an older bottle, or do all the Rittenhouse BIBs come from here? This is the only bottle I've seen around my area. Tom V

  10. #20
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    Re: DSP Code Numbers

    I have one of those too and there's no reason to doubt its accuracy. It simply means the whiskey inside was distilled before the fire. More common, of course, is DSP 354, which is Brown-Forman in Louisville, where Heaven Hill has been making its rye whiskey even since acquiring Bernheim, because Bernheim is operating at capacity.

    There were also some bottles that were "accidentally mislabeled," including some 80 proof bottles that had the BIB back label, and some BIB bottles that had no back label at all, for which the explanation given was that they "must have fallen off."

    If there is any Rittenhouse out there that was made at Bernheim, I haven't seen it.

 

 

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