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Thread: JTS Brown

  1. #11
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    Re:JTS Brown

    "White Tavern." Thanks! I am sure you are right about the placebo theory. As you cite, not only does Fats seem unaffected, but he says somewhat ominously and emphatically to Preacher, "Get it at Johnny's."

  2. #12
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    Re:JTS Brown

    I am informed that there is, in fact, a "White Tavern Whiskey." Heaven Hill owns the brand. But that doesn't negate my theory about its significance in the movie, especially with the ominous, "get it at Johhny's."

  3. #13
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    Re:JTS Brown

    It's funny.. I've watched The Hustler at least a billion times in my life, but hadn't ever considered the idea that Fats' whiskey wasn't whiskey.

    I grew up watching it and thinking it was a movie about pool. I hadn't watched it in years, and bought the DVD at Target a few months ago and watched it again. It's not a movie about pool at all. The pool is incidental. It's funny what ten or twenty years of perspective do to a movie.

    As an aside, in the 1959 Walter Tevis novel ("The Hustler"), it was a little different.. it wasn't White Tavern whiskey, it was White Horse (I assume it's White Horse Blended Scotch) from page 39:


    Then he pulled a ten-dollar bill out of his pocket, handed it to a thin nervous man in a black suit, who was watching the game, and said, "Preacher, I want White Horse whiskey. And ice. And a glass. And you get yourself a fix with the change; but you do that after you come back with my whiskey."
    Eddie grinned, liking the feel of this, the getting ready for action. He fished out a ten himself. "J. T. S. Brown bourbon," he said to the thin man. Then he leaned his cue stick against the table, unbuttoned his cuffs, and began rolling up his shirt sleeves. Then he stretched out his arms, flexing the muscles, enjoying the good sense of their steadiness, their control, and he said, "Okay, Fats. Your break".


    - Jeff

  4. #14
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    Re: jts brown

    I was in the dump room "trying" to show some friends how to read the date of entry for a barrel. I walked upon this barrel scheduled for processing in the single barrel station...

    The first thing that surprised me was...this barrel is marked J.T.S. Brown. Heaven Hill, usually doesn't stencil barrels, for specific bottlings.

    I had to get a picture of it...The first two numbers are the year (81) that it was barreled--L, the 12th letter in the alphabet=December---the last number is the acutal day---A is first shift, December 17, 1981...It's HH DSP #31...

    I asked some of the guys from the warehouse about marking barrels with specific bottlings, and if there are any others? The answer was no, just the JTS Brown name is stenciled on "some" of the barrels along time ago...

    Bettye Jo
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  5. #15
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    Re: jts brown

    Three questions on this intriguing post:

    (i) could it be that this barrel had been made for JTS Brown when it was independent (note the company name is used not just a brand name) but wasn't sold or delivered to them and finally ended up, new of course, in HH's barrel inventory?

    (ii) what single barrel bottling is this intended for? Isn't this whiskey much older than anything sold domestically by HH? If intended for a foreign market, could it be for the one which receives the very rare 23 year old HH whiskey, the super-aged one we have read about here?

    (iii) when this barrel was dumped Bettye Jo, how full was it?

    Gary

  6. #16
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    Re: jts brown

    Hi Gary

    (i) could it be that this barrel had been made for JTS Brown when it was independent (note the company name is used not just a brand name) but wasn't sold or delivered to them and finally ended up, new of course, in HH's barrel inventory?

    You are more than likely, right, on this. I agree with you but I don't know for sure I will havta ask around for ya

    (ii) what single barrel bottling is this intended for? Isn't this whiskey much older than anything sold domestically by HH? If intended for a foreign market, could it be for the one which receives the very rare 23 year old HH whiskey, the super-aged one we have read about here?

    Yes, it's for the Evan Williams 23 year blue wax EXPORT only to Japan and France

    (iii) when this barrel was dumped Bettye Jo, how full was it?

    It was dumped on, April 26, 2004 I know for sure on the date cause I was showing Randy and Val when they came to visit during the Sampler

    I asked Ronzo (worker in dump room) if he was going to process it that night? He told me that they were going to do it that following Monday...Hey, if your plane had been on schedule, you would have had the opportunity to see that one for yourself


    I don't know how full it was...I should have shook it. I usually do that but the name on it kinda distracted me.

    Bettye Jo

  7. #17
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    Re: jts brown

    Thanks Bettye Jo, great info as always. I was just reading about JTS Brown, the entry in Sam Cecil's book. I'll check it again, maybe it will shed more light. I wonder how these things develop, a 23 year old bourbon, not a twenty year old, or 21 year old, even though all those ages are years beyond any HH domestic. I guess the Elijah Craig 18 year old is the oldest regularly sold in the U.S. by HH (certainly the oldest single barrel of any bourbon in the U.S. period, I think). As for barrel quantity, I'd think that barrel would have been half full or less.

    Gary

  8. #18
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    Re: jts brown

    I asked some of the guys from the warehouse about marking barrels with specific bottlings, and if there are any others? The answer was no, just the JTS Brown name is stenciled on "some" of the barrels along time ago...
    I guess my question would simply be, why? Though it seems unlikely that anyone would remember after so long.

    The J.T.S. Brown brand name and distillery (Today's Four Roses) were purchased by Seagrams in 1941, so that is when J.T.S. Brown ceased to be an independent company, but Seagram's undoubtedly used a J.T.S. Brown dba and so it is possible Heaven Hill made whiskey for them. However, unless the original intention had been to ship it to Seagrams for aging, there doesn't seem to be any reason to label the barrel unless there was some special specification for this batch of whiskey that made it different from the rest of Heaven Hill's output.

    Another possibility is that it was labeled for a photograph for advertising or other marketing purposes when Heaven Hill obtained the J.T.S. Brown brand name from Seagrams. I don't know when that took place, but I know it was before 1991. I think it came in the same deal with Henry McKenna.

  9. #19

    Re: jts brown

    When I took a tour at Buffalo Trace last July (2003), there was a display of several barrels of differing ages with the endpieces a transparent acrylic (or some other unsoluble material) so you could observe barrel level, color, et al. As it happened, there was a 23yo barrel -- I don't know if this was a full-time display or just something I was lucky enough to see -- and the visible bourbon remaining was no more than 8 or so inches at the deepest point.
    I assume this was destined to be Pappy 23, which was bottled last December.
    Elmer Lee, in a presentation he does for Buffalo Trace to select groups of distributors, retailers, etc., estimates "Angels' Share" loss at 8% the first year, then 3% annually thereafter. That would leave about a quarter-barrel after 23 years.

  10. #20
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    Re: jts brown

    Interesting, Tim, but not more than 8 inches?? That would leave much less than 25% in the barrel as a barrel must (I would think) stand higher than 32 inches. No?

    Gary

 

 

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