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  1. #1
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    Barleyed bourbon??

    Hey All,
    So I was pouring through the Regan's book and was looking at mashbills and it brought up a question I have been meaning to ask for awhile. Are there any barleyed bourbons??? I mean i realize that almost all have some malted barley in them but I mean are there any where that is the second largest % of the mashbill, so that it is the secondary flavor grain. i didnt notice any when i was skimming. and if not, the why??(does the corn overrun the barley flavors??) I mean there is this whole group of people across the pond that thinks the only thing you need on your mashbill is malted barley. . . . .


    Please Fill me in

    TomC


  2. #2
    **DONOTDELETE**
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    Re: Barleyed bourbon??

    OK Tom remember you've got to have at least 51% corn to become a bourbon plus be aged in new white oak barrels for at least 24 months.

    Other than that you can use any combination of 'flavor grains'. I should think that if a Corn/barley/barley malt mashbill was good tasting there wolud be some on your stores shelves. Same thing with oats, or rice.

    I happen to like buckwheat. I'd like to see a four grain mashbill with rye and buckwheat as the flavor grains.

    Linn Spencer

    Have Shotglass. Will Travel.

  3. #3
    Disciple
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    Re: Barleyed bourbon??

    i was wondering about oats as well, being that i am a big fan of Oatmeal Stouts.(though i dont know if oatmeal & that much corn would work together, given that only a small amount of the oatmeal would actually ferment in the mash) To me it would seem that rice would be pointless because it really doesnt lend any flavours (been to enough brewery tours to know that they just use that as an adjunct to stretch the flavors of six row malt instead of using two row)

    now im not suggesting that i would even like "barleyed bourbon" per se, as i find the currents stuff marvelous. i just found it odd that there wasnt one.

    Curious TomC, the curious little. . . . . . .

    (guess who learned to use emoticons today. . . . .)


  4. #4
    Bourbonian of the Year 2002 and Guru
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    Re: Barleyed bourbon??

    I suspect that a corn/barley whiskey would be pretty bland. Rye and wheat are combined with corn in bourbon recipes because corn is pretty bland and those grains add flavor. Malted barley is used for the enzymes that promote the conversion of starch to sugar, not for its taste. If you think about beer, you also have flavoring agents, most typically hops, precisely because the barley doesn't have much flavor. With scotch, taste comes from the peat or the wood. How often do you hear someone extol a scotch's "barley flavor."

    Apparently, a few distillers have messed about with oats. At least one reported that it makes a gummy mess and is difficult to work with.

    <A target="_blank" HREF=http://cowdery.home.netcom.com>--Chuck Cowdery</A>

  5. #5
    **DONOTDELETE**
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    Re: Barleyed bourbon??

    I hear that Chuck! Just think about how thick and pastey oatmeal is - it would be like pouring cement into your still!

    Linn Spencer

    Have Shotglass. Will Travel.

  6. #6
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    Re: Barleyed bourbon??

    i suppose that makes sense. in beer the barley flavor is generally described as sweetness (but i suppose that corn supplies that well enough).

    so do you think the correllation between hops in beer and rye in bourbon is valid (inasmuch as they both lend a spiciness to theirproducts)???


    also, i read in the Regans book that some distillers use hops in yeast propogation, but they never explained quite why. is that another flavor thing??? do they add hops to the mash before distilling (arguing that whiskey is like "distilled beer") or is it just used in the tubs cultivating yeast?


    Tom (<font color=red> the ever inquisitive one </font color=red>)C


  7. #7
    Advanced Taster
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    Re: Barleyed bourbon??

    Whew, thought that subject header said "Barneyed bourbon??" for a second.

    I'm not so sure that a corn/barley bourbon would be bland. It may not be good, but I doubt it'd be bland. There are some unpeated Scotches and 100% barley American whiskeys that have plenty of flavor. Yes, Scotch gets its taste largely from wood, but not as much as bourbon does, since Scotch almost always ages in old bourbon casks and/or sherry butts that are often long past their days of being able to contribute any flavor. The balance of Scotch's flavor comes somewhat from the peat -- though not nearly as much as is commonly believed -- and fermentation/distillation by-products.

    And comparing the barley used in distilled beverages to the barley used in beer is a non-starter. They're generally different strains of barley (2-row as opposed to 6-row), plus beer barley is roasted to some degree to bring out various colors and/or flavors.

    Stotz


  8. #8
    Advanced Taster
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    Re: Barleyed bourbon??

    IIRC, hops are added for their antiseptic qualities. In those open fermenters all kinds of weird airborne yeasts and bacteria and who knows what else can get in there and wreak untold havoc, and the hops supposedly keep down the chances of that happening. I don't think distillers use any variety of hop that would contribute any flavor whatsoever to the final product, at least not in the quantities they're using.

    Stotz


  9. #9
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    Re: Barleyed bourbon??

    Good idea with the buckwheat. I used to have a bottle of buckwheat "whiskey" distilled in, of all places, Russia. A Russian business partner of my father's brought it over for me. It's got that buckwheat flavor -- caramelly sweetness, kind of like chicory coffee -- to it. I'd think that'd do well in bourbon.

    Stotz


  10. #10
    The Boss
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    Re: Barleyed bourbon??

    A few salient points:

    Any growth medium that is unfavorable for "wild" yeast cells will be unfavorable for "domesticated" yeast cells as well.

    Bacterial infection is unlikely to come from the air but rather from some piece of hardware the growth medium has come in contact with. Once alcohol concentration in the medium reaches a certain point, the risk of bacterial infection is greatly reduced.

    If the growth medium and temperature are appropriate for yeast propagation, and the correct amount of starter is employed, airborne yeast cells have but a small chance of gaining purchase.

    Lupulone, a bitter acid found in hops, is predominantly a preservative and flavoring agent. The use of hops isn't likely to kill yeast or bacteria (at least in the concentrations found in brewing) during fermentation, but does tend to inhibit the growth of same during subsequent storage.

    Cheers,

    Jim Butler
    Straightbourbon.com

 

 

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