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  1. #1
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    Forty Creek Small Batch Release

    Well. I think I've got a line on one of the hand numbered 6,000 bottles released by Forty Creek. John K. Hall, the distiller, hand selected the casks, ranging in age of 6-15 years. It will be having a commercial release on September 18th (whatever is left over from the 2 months of online/on-site sales).

    If anyone has tried this yet, please post away. Let's see if this brings Canadian Whisky to a new level!

  2. #2
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    Re: Forty Creek Small Batch Release

    Is this Canadian 3/4's full of vodka like most other things from Canada?
    Jeff Mo.

  3. #3

    Re: Forty Creek Small Batch Release

    Quote Originally Posted by mozilla View Post
    Is this Canadian 3/4's full of vodka like most other things from Canada?
    Jeff Mo.
    The label does not include the word "blended", and the website does not mention the addition of grain neutral spirits. The first fact is more dispositive than the second. See also an article by Chuck Cowdery in Whisky Magazine about Forty Creek. Chuck also does not mention grain neutral spirits, and he says that the whiskies making up Forty Creed are pot-distilled mostly in one pass to around 62% alcohol, although some are doubled to 70-75%. Neither level qualifies as grain neutral spirits, of course.

  4. #4
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    Re: Forty Creek Small Batch Release

    All of the Canadian Whiskies that I have seen contain 75% grain neutral spirits, whether,it says it on the label or not. I would count on this one being the same way.
    Jeff Mo.

  5. #5
    Bourbonian of the Year 2011
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    Re: Forty Creek Small Batch Release

    Under Canadian law as I read it, whisky must be aged at least 3 years in small wood (barrels under 700 L). An exception states that "flavouring" can be added. Flavouring is defined as any domestic or foreign spirits or wine. This would seem to allow GNS to be added. It doesn't though to whisky sold in Canada because an exception to the exception states that no spirits can be added as flavouring unless aged at least 2 years in wood. For whisky exported in bond to America, the latter rule (the exception to the exception) does not apply, but another one does which states that not more than 9.090% of the alcohol in the blend can be derived from flavouring. Ie., GNS seemingly can be added to exported whisky (not domestic-sold) (which doesn't mean it is for all exported brands), but this 9.090% maximum can't be exceeded.

    Most Canadian whisky probably uses as its base a spirit distilled at a very high proof, and its percentage in the final blend would exceed probably in most cases 75%, but that is not GNS in the domestic product because of the aging in wood rules I mentioned. And as I say, in the exported in bond product, the amount of GNS added, assuming this is even done, can't exceed the 9.090% rule mentioned.

    I don't know how the Forty Creek whiskies are put together though. Chuck seems to have gotten some pretty specific information.

    Gary

  6. #6
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    Re: Forty Creek Small Batch Release

    Gary,
    How can GNS be considered a flavor? Written on many bottles of Can. whisky is GNS 66% or higher. I think that rule would only apply to the port, wine and fruity flavors that are used in every Canadian whisky. Lastly, what Canadian whisky comes Bib?
    Jeff Mo.

  7. #7

    Re: Forty Creek Small Batch Release

    Quote Originally Posted by mozilla View Post
    All of the Canadian Whiskies that I have seen contain 75% grain neutral spirits, whether,it says it on the label or not. I would count on this one being the same way.
    Jeff Mo.
    Labels of spirits sold in the United States have to conform to BATF regulations, and BATF regulations define Canadian Whisky thusly: "Unblended whisky manufactured in Canada in compliance with its laws." It is distinguished in the regulations from blended Canadian Whisky. So yes, the lack of the word "blended" on the label is legally very significant. If it's not there (and it's not), that means that it's either labeled illegally, which is hard to imagine, or it doesn't contain grain neutral spirits.

  8. #8
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    Re: Forty Creek Small Batch Release

    Well how about that! I went a checked the two bottles I have and.....Both are labeled blended CC15 and CMist 1886. So, that begs the question, how many Canadian whiskies in the US are not blended? I would have said all before reading your last post. Thanks for teaching this old dog a new trick.
    Jeff Mo.

  9. #9
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    Re: Forty Creek Small Batch Release

    Okay thanks and Jeff I was just speaking to the Canadian regulations. I haven't checked what Canadian whisky must be under U.S. law and I didn't know that bottles of Canadian are labelled in the States as you indicated, or about the unblended thing. Not sure yet what is meant by that. I'll try to figure this out. I was simply saying that to sell it here (Canada), unaged GNS cannot be added (as I read the rules) - and if GNS is aged it isn't GNS in the usual sense (because it has a wood flavour). Anyway I'll check further in the U.S. laws to try to figure it all out. Plus I'll be in the States soon and can look at some bottles of Canadian there. By exported in bond, I meant, exported without paying Canadian taxes, not BIB in the U.S. sense.

    Gary

  10. #10
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    Re: Forty Creek Small Batch Release

    I haven't yet tried the Small Batch Release, I am looking forward to it since I am a fan of the Forty Creek products.

    Here is an extract from the U.S. standards of identity for whiskies:

    "(9) “Canadian whisky” is whisky which is a distinctive product of Canada, manufactured in Canada in compliance with the laws of Canada regulating the manufacture of Canadian whisky for consumption in Canada: Provided, That if such product is a mixture of whiskies, such mixture is “blended Canadian whisky” (Canadian whisky—a blend)".

    As I read this, the rules I referred to earlier about what Canadian whisky can be called when exported don't apply in the U.S. since this seems to require that Canadian whisky sold in the U.S. be made up in the same way as if sold in Canada.

    My understanding of the rules for sale in Canada are (this is not exhaustive) that while flavouring - i.e., any foreign or domestic spirits (not just whisky) or wine - can be added to Canadian whisky in any amount, the flavouring if "spirits" has to be aged at least two years. So you could add I think grain spirits if aged at least two years but not grain neutral spirits - grain spirits (as defined in the U.S. standards of identity at any rate) are grain spirits stored in oak containers.

    (One might think: if in the domestically sold (Canada) product "spirits" can be added in any amount - any foreign or domestic spirits which seems to include, rum, brandy, etc - does that not water down the concept of Canadian whisky? The answer is it does not because another rules states that Canadian whisky must have the aroma, taste and character generally attributed to Canadian whisky).

    For non-exports from Canada, the 9.09% rule often mentioned in discussions about Canadian whisky means, that if more than that percentage of the alcohol in the blend derives from foreign or domestic spirits or wine, the age of the resultant product is deemed to be the age of the youngest spirits in the blend. Say you add 30% alcohol deriving from a 10 year old U.S. bourbon to a 5 year old Canadian whisky - the product has to be described as 5 years old. However if you add 9% alcohol deriving from a 2 year old bourbon to a 5 year old Canadian whisky, you can still describe the whisky as 5 years old.

    So as I read all these rules (but I could be wrong and am open to other information/interpretations), (unaged) GNS can't be put in Canadian whisky sold in the U.S. because it can't be in Canada.

    As for the blending reference in the quoted paragraph, I am not sure how a mixture of whiskies is to be interpreted (maybe other rules in the U.S. standards would assist here). E.g., if a Canadian distillery mingles before aging some whisky that is low-proof with some that is high, is that a mixture? Or is a mixture only something which is a combination of whiskies from different distilleries? Can it be even two high proof whiskies from the same distillery if one is distilled from all-rye and the other from all-corn? I just don't know. I'll look at the labels of Canadian whiskies when in the States soon. Some may say the product is blended Canadian whisky.

    Gary
    Last edited by Gillman; 09-02-2007 at 07:33.

 

 

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