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  1. #31
    Bourbonian of the Year 2010 and Guru
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    Re: Forty Creek Small Batch Release

    Found the text of the Canadian EU agreement...109 pages of which maybe 20 say something useful...the rest are filled with protected names of wines and spirits. There seems to be no loophole for whiskys containing flavoring agents.

    I too believe that the judgment should be in the flavor. This does require the provision of separate categories in the laws. The original Bottled in Bond Act did not prevent rectifiers from making compound spirits, it did however prevent them from passing them off as spirits that were more costly to produce. Of course, having laws that are more standardized world-wide is helpful too.
    2010 Bourbonian of the Year

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  2. #32
    Bourbonian of the Year 2002 and Guru
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    Re: Forty Creek Small Batch Release

    To be sold in the EU as whiskey, a product has to contain 100 percent whiskey according to the EU definition, which means grain origin and aging for at least three years, mostlsignificantly. Contrary to what has been said here, I believe most Canadian whiskey meets this requirement, whereas most American Blended Whiskey does not. However, a Canadian whiskey producer who did not meet the requirement could simply do what Seagram's and now Diageo does with Seagram's Seven Crown, which is reformulate it as 100 percent whiskey for the European market.

    I have heard a few times from people in the know, but who might also be spinning me, that Canadian whiskey must, by law, be distilled with such a low congeneric content that the only way they can get any flavor into it is to blend in something that has some flavor, which usually is bourbon.

    The fact that Canadian producers age their nearly-neutral base whiskey, like the Scots do and unlike Americans, suggests to me that most producers wouldn't choose to flavor their whiskey with anything but whiskey. Point being that they tend to look at whiskey the same way the Scots do, and cite their closer connection to Great Britain (closer than us) for why they make their whiskey the way they do, which differs from the Scottish practice only in that they don't also market their "singles."

    Considering that their biggest market is the USA, flavoring their whiskey with our whiskey makes a lot of sense.

    If you don't think a less that 9.09 percent share of bourbon would have much affect on the flavor, try it yourself. Add one part Stagg to ten parts of any Canadian and tell me you can't taste the difference. I'm sure Gary won't hesitate to try it.

    As for whether or not it's okay to flavor straight whiskey, it's permitted, so long as you label it flavored whiskey, which is a classification in the "Standards of Identity."

  3. #33
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    Re: Forty Creek Small Batch Release

    Damn now this is starting to sink in...wish I would have picked up some of those EU Canadians when I was there last summer...Would be fun to try side by side with their USA counterparts.
    2010 Bourbonian of the Year

    As long as you have good whiskey you're not "unemployed", you're "Funemployed!!!"

    I'm no Pappyophile

  4. #34
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    Re: Forty Creek Small Batch Release

    I agree with all Chuck has said except in Canadian law as I read it there is no distillation proof requirement. The definition states simply that it must be "mashed, distilled and aged in Canada" and be (evidently this is final bottling proof) not less than 40% ABV.

    Flavouring Canadian with additional bourbon is a good idea: I do it all the time. Try it with straight rye and you get something even more "Canadian".

    Gary

  5. #35
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    Re: Forty Creek Small Batch Release

    Here is part of the definition of Canadian whisky (as I understand it).

    The rest is in the blending rules, which I discussed earlier.


    B.02.020. [S]. (1) Canadian Whisky, Canadian Rye Whisky or Rye Whisky

    (a) shall

    (i) be a potable alcoholic distillate, or a mixture of potable alcoholic distillates, obtained from a mash of cereal grain or cereal grain products saccharified by the diastase of malt or by other enzymes and fermented by the action of yeast or a mixture of yeast and other micro-organisms,

    (ii) be aged in small wood for not less than three years,

    (iii) possess the aroma, taste and character generally attributed to Canadian whisky,

    (iv) be manufactured in accordance with the requirements of the Excise Act and the regulations made thereunder,

    (v) be mashed, distilled and aged in Canada, and

    (vi) contain not less than 40 per cent alcohol by volume; and

    (b) may contain caramel and flavouring.

    (2) Subject to subsection (3), no person shall make any claim with respect to the age of Canadian whisky, other than for the period during which the whisky has been held in small wood.

    (3) Where Canadian whisky has been aged in small wood for a period of at least three years, any period not exceeding six months during which that whisky was held in other containers may be claimed as age.

    SOR/93-145, s. 10; SOR/2000-51, s. 1.

  6. #36
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    Re: Forty Creek Small Batch Release

    Quote Originally Posted by jcusey View Post
    Forty Creek is the only Canadian whisky that I have ever seen that does not have the word "blended" on the label.
    There isn't many, but the Century Reserve line was unblended....I think the limited edition Corby releases might not have been blended either....

  7. #37
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    Re: Forty Creek Small Batch Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Gillman View Post
    I see what you saying but when you say "slack", is that not using a loaded term?


    Gary
    I did not mean to offend anyone, Gary. Please note that the language barrier possibly rears it ugly head here. To me, the word 'slack' does not constitute a gross insult but maybe it does? The subtleties of language are not to be underestimated.

    Anyway, my only interest in this discussion is to find out why Canadian whisky is so underrepresented in Europe. I would love to try stuff from Alberta, Valleyfield and Highwood but I never see their stuff anywhere.
    Delighted to see you if you can find me!

  8. #38
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    Re: Forty Creek Small Batch Release

    Hedmans please be assured I didn't take it that way at all, but was simply pointing out a personal feeling I have that a definition of whisky which excludes apparently additions such as sherry wine may on further consideration not be all that different from one which allows it. I fully appreciate your query whether perhaps the EU law does exclude some of our products for this reason and this may be why the choice there is narrow. My only interest is to state at the same time that this does not (in my view) affect the underlying quality determination.

    Gary

  9. #39
    Bourbonian of the Year 2002 and Guru
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    Re: Forty Creek Small Batch Release

    I don't think there is any mystery to why Canadian whiskey is not more available in Europe. There simply is too little demand for it. Similarly, there isn't much akavit sold in North America.

  10. #40
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    Re: Forty Creek Small Batch Release

    You're right Chuck. I once ran all over St. Moritz Switzerland looking for a bottle of CC with which to make Manhattans. I finally found one (just one) but it took quite a while.
    Joe
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