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  1. #11
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    Re: Help me find a drink in StL

    Believe it or not, Google helped out with the spelling.

    Yours truly,
    Dave Morefield
    Yours truly,
    Dave Morefield

    Dog Lover, Euphonium Player, Campfire Guitarist, Marksman,

  2. #12
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    Re: Help me find a drink in StL

    It's not bourbon or a fancy restaurant, but I second the Ted Drewes recommendation. It will probably be too cold for the full affect, assuming they are still open, but it's still worth a stop.

    There's nothing like a summer evening at dusk, the Ted Drewes parking lot full of people standing around eating frozen custard.

  3. #13
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    Re: Help me find a drink in StL

    Well, I think this has been discussed before but I found a bottle of David Nicholson 1843 today. It says Bottled in Bond distilled by Old Fitzgerald Distillery DSP-KY-16 bottled by ... DSP-MO-16. All that sounds good, but the 06 imprinted on the bottom of the bottle makes me wonder what SW whiskey was doing around still being bottled in 2006? And it looks awful light in color. Also, I am recalling something about this latest iteration not being very good? And if it bottled by Nicholson Distillery Co., it obviously wouldn't be Julian picking this out so....

    Anyway I think I'll crack it open here directly and give it a taste, shoot I have three nights till I fly home! And since it'll probably find it's way onto an expense report what the hell.
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    C

    "everybody defamates from miles away
    but face to face
    they haven't got a thing to say"

  4. #14
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    Re: Help me find a drink in StL

    Christian, this bottling (or one quite like it) was discussed before on the board and my conclusion from reading those posts was, well, it seems unusual that this could be S-W whiskey since so much time has passed yet the DSP-16 number is on the label, so it must be. Possibly it was a slow-maturing batch, or maybe stored for some reason in very lightly charred barrels. I believe I had this at a party in Louisville last year (Kentucky Bourbon Society) and quite liked it, it struck me as a lighter version of the regular S-W bourbon.

    According to Jackson's 1987 World Guide To Whisky, David Nicholson was produced for the Van Winkle family in a private label arrangement. Jackson states that the family of whiskeys associated with S-W (OF, the Weller brands, Cabin Still and David Nicholson) all had similar characteristics. He said (this again at the time) that David Nicholson came in different versions, e.g. one was 90 proof and 7 years old, one was 107 proof and 10 years old.

    Altough all issued from the same distillate, I would think though that each had a somewhat different profile.

    Gary
    Last edited by Gillman; 10-31-2007 at 20:11.

  5. #15
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    Re: Help me find a drink in StL

    Quote Originally Posted by Gillman View Post
    Christian, this bottling (or one quite like it) was discussed before on the board and my conclusion from reading those posts was, well, it seems unusual that this could be S-W whiskey since so much time has passed yet the DSP-16 number is on the label, so it must be. Possibly it was a slow-maturing batch, or maybe stored for some reason in very lightly charred barrels. I believe I had this at a party in Louisville last year (Kentucky Bourbon Society) and quite liked it, it struck me as a lighter version of the regular S-W bourbon.

    According to Jackson's 1987 World Guide To Whisky, David Nicholson was produced for the Van Winkle family in a private label arrangement. Jackson states that the family of whiskeys associated with S-W (OF, the Weller brands, Cabin Still and David Nicholson) all had similar characteristics. He said (this again at the time) that David Nicholson came in different versions, e.g. one was 90 proof and 7 years old, one was 107 proof and 10 years old.

    Altough all issued from the same distillate, I would think though that each had a somewhat different profile.

    Gary
    Right on as usual Gary, thanks for the info.

    It is S-W and just like you said it is lighter edit: I'd call it a very soft and light mouth feel (if that makes any sense?) than many S-W bourbons I've had and honestly is hard for me to taste really well out of a coffee mug, but that was better than the styro/plastic cup option. I get a similar caramel vanilla note in the nose that I described in the ORVW15 as creme brulee and it has a distinct fruity cherry finish I find in some of the KBS Weller12s. All in all for $17.49 it is not the best S-W obviously but not the worst either, this is a pretty darn good pour that I'll feel bad leaving behind, actually I might give to a co-worker to hold the open bottle for me after I leave Saturday for when I return next week. And I think I'll go pick up the other(s) and take them back to the bunker with me!

    I just find the BiB odd in that the only S-W BiB of "recent" vintage I can recall is the OF which was replaced at least, what 5, 8, maybe 10 years ago? So how was Sherman pulling it off as recently as '06? Just thinking outloud and probably way off in my dates so....
    Last edited by Virus_Of_Life; 10-31-2007 at 20:55.
    C

    "everybody defamates from miles away
    but face to face
    they haven't got a thing to say"

  6. #16
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    Re: Help me find a drink in StL

    Thanks and I should have mentioned also Rebel Yell, i.e., in the 1980's this was part of the group I mentioned all issuing from Stitzel-Weller. Jackson wrote that RY shared the characteristics of OF but perhaps was a little rougher in the finish. So probably each of these whiskeys had its own profile within the overall S-W taste. That Nicolson I had last year (and it looked very similar to the one you found) seemed S-W to me but in a slightly lighter interpretation.

    If it is not S-W, this would seemingly result only from some kind of error or the use of older label inventory still on hand but I would think this unlikely. It can be bonded but be older than the 4 years minimum... I always take these things at face value, not to say an error cannot occur for some reason but I doubt it in this case.

    Gary
    Last edited by Gillman; 11-01-2007 at 11:48.

  7. #17
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    Re: Help me find a drink in StL

    I seriously doubt that what is in the bottle of DN1843 is SW whiskey unless it was tanked years ago and is being bottled in the way Julian is bottling his rye. Not meaning to burst any bubbles here but the price point vs the quantity on the shelves in every St Louis grocery store and liquor store speaks against it.

    I did return Christians PM, belatedly but alas he is visiting the downtown area which I tended to mostly avoid for 16 years except for special occasions. Dierdorf and Hart's was a wonderful choice on Market Street for sure, I've mostly eaten at their other location in the County though. Now that I think of Market Street, Christian, you need to take time to go to Union Station and check the lobby of the Hyatt out (Ed appreciated it when I took him) and they have several restaurants (mostly chains) like Landry's Seafood, Hard Rock Cafe, and Houlihan's. A nice treat there is the Fudgery where they make fudge in front of a live audience and put on a show while they are doing it. Great fudge to go with that SW sweet tooth... Ted Drewes doesn't make a difference on the weather, still a must. Not sure if it's still there but somewhere down by the Convention Center/Edward Jones Dome was a small Pub called Dooley's but all I remember was the big thick burgers with scoops of cheddar on top.....One night you need to go to the Hill for Italian Food. I liked Cunetto's but always wanted to try Bruno's Little Italy if it's still open. Usually I just look for a parking spot and then go to the closest restaurant. As far as leaving your bottles, I think if you're coming back to the same Hotel the next week they will probably hold a box for you (if you don't tell them what's in it of course). If you want the best meal and money's no object then Tony's http://www.saucemagazine.com/tonys/ is the place for you. It's THE fine dining restaurant. Great wine list too. If you have a couple of hours to kill and want to explore go to Alton and check out Fast Eddie's Bon-Aire. Cheap food and good. Fat Eddie Burgers, Hot Chix on a stick, and HUGE peal and eat shrimp for a decent price but good luck finding a place to sit if you go in for dinner...

    Dang it, I wish I was still there to play tour guide! Was the only time I got out of the house back when...
    Dane
    I don't drink to excess. But I'll drink to most anything else.

  8. #18
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    Re: Help me find a drink in StL

    Quote Originally Posted by gr8erdane View Post
    I seriously doubt that what is in the bottle of DN1843 is SW whiskey unless it was tanked years ago and is being bottled in the way Julian is bottling his rye. Not meaning to burst any bubbles here but the price point vs the quantity on the shelves in every St Louis grocery store and liquor store speaks against it.
    I seriously doubted it until I tasted it Dane and not saying I have the best pallette around but it sure seems like SW to me. There was at least one more bottle there, I'll grab it and ship it home and keep it aside for the Sampler table next year so the experts can give it a try.

    Thanks for all the other info. The next trip is going to be packed with trying to get the info I need from the Project lead and then heading to Minneapolis one weekend and probably Kentucky another. As much as I'd like to spend some time at home and get my life pieced back together, I am still hoping to be able to work there some in December as well. If that pans out I'll have much more time for getting to some of the places you mentioned. The A-B tour will happen, but other than that I am just not sure...

    Shoot, who knows if Portland doesn't pan out next year St. Louis may become home for a while...
    C

    "everybody defamates from miles away
    but face to face
    they haven't got a thing to say"

  9. #19
    Bourbonian of the Year 2002 and Guru
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    Re: Help me find a drink in StL

    Based on this and a couple of other recent incidents, I'm starting to have my doubts about our bottle dating methodology. Although we know mislabeling happens, it is a violation of federal law and not something producers are likely to do capriciously. Bottle dating has always mostly been a theory. If the bottle date seems to be consistent with other evidence then it tends to support an overall conclusion but if the bottle date seems to conflict with other evidence, I'm inclined to doubt the bottle date. Diageo owns the Stitzel-Weller property. Consequently, they own the DSP-KY-16 designation. Although whiskey is being aged there, nothing is being distilled or bottled there, therefore nothing is produced at DSP-KY-16.

    Tankering is doubtful. That's an expensive, chancy and uncommon practice. We know some of the Hirsch/Michters was tankered and so is Julian's rye, but I doubt Luxco has done that with a minor, commodity brand such as David Nicholson. The most likely explanation is old case stock.

    Anyway, that's what I know, which is not much.

  10. #20
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    Re: Help me find a drink in StL

    I'd agree on old case stock Chuck but for the change in bottles. Today's DN1843 comes in the short squat round bottles like the VW 10/109 and the old certainly SW versions came in the tall bottles like current Pappys. While it's certainly possible some old stock has been sitting in a warehouse for some time, the current bottles don't show the aging.
    Dane
    I don't drink to excess. But I'll drink to most anything else.

 

 

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