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  1. #11
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    Re: Let's Talk About Gin

    Used to drink a lot of Tanqueray, then Tanq 10. Recently have switched to Bombay Sapphire and Hendricks.
    "A man can take a little bourbon without getting drunk, but if you hold his mouth open and pour in a quart, he's going to get sick on it."
    LBJ

  2. #12
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    374

    Re: Let's Talk About Gin

    Many of us believe American colonial rye whiskey was as much an unflavored genever as it was descended from Celtic whiskeys.[/quote]

    That sounds interesting Chuck,have you any more info on this matter,sites or books?Thanks.
    Eric.
    Netherlands

  3. #13
    Bourbonian of the Year 2002 and Guru
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    Re: Let's Talk About Gin

    I don't find aquavit gin-like, the difference probably being that caraway is a flavor, without much aroma, whereas with gin the aroma can seem more important than the taste. I'm most familiar with Aalborg Aquavit, which is not aged.

    I haven't seen the Kensington.

    Seagram's Gin actually sees a little barrel time, about three months, hence the very slight yellow hue.

    Certainly all of the major gins, whether UK- or US-bottled, are based on neutral spirits and have no grain character. Every genever I've had has definite grain character and the grain usually is rye, which is how I make the connection with early whiskey-making on this continent.

    This is not something I ever seen documented. It's something Gary Gillman, myself, and a few others have cooked up.
    Last edited by cowdery; 01-21-2008 at 10:04.

  4. #14
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    Re: Let's Talk About Gin

    Seagram's is my favorite inexpensive gin. I especially liked the grapefruit flavored version. Very refreshing over ice on a hot summer evening. Unfortunately, it's no longer being made. I guess I was the only one drinking it.

  5. #15
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    Portland. ME
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    Re: Let's Talk About Gin

    Quote Originally Posted by cowdery View Post
    Boodles, then, is probably coming out of Lawrenceburg, Indiana, too. Seagram's is no more so I'll assume Boodles is owned by Diageo now. If all that's the case, then Boodles Gin along with Seagram's Gin are probably the best bets in an inexpensive domestic gin, because at least they infuse.
    ...

    Many of us believe American colonial rye whiskey was as much an unflavored genever as it was descended from Celtic whiskeys.

    I believe Boodles to be in the Pernod Ricard stable now - I got a bottle for $15 up in Vermont, but it tends to sell at more of a premium here in NYC. It was the preferred gin of Travis McGee, so that's good enough for me.

    Interesting about the gin/whiskey connections -- I got a bottle of Bluecoat in PA, a small-batch pot still gin out of Philly. It is so different than the London style - the botanicals are there in the nose, but way in the back on the palate. It's real grainy - reminded me of white dog off a continuous still.

  6. #16
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    Re: Let's Talk About Gin

    When I did my gin article I tried them all room temperature neat. It was quite an interesting tasting!

    Anyway, off the top of my head:

    Plymouth: SUPER smooth, SO easy drinking its scary.

    Tanq 10: WAY better than Tanq regular. Pine all over the place. More polished.

    Sapphire: Very solid, as always!

    Hendricks: cucumber cucumber cucumber, nice off the beaten path gin. ive turned many into hendricks fans at my bar.

    Boomsa Oude: aged gin, it smells like whisky. it has a bit of a bite. i cant see it being a typical martini gin. maybe on the rocks? maybe a different cocktail would compliment this genever gin? experimentation needed.

    Old Raj: Now THIS was a really great gin. The most flavorful of the bunch and at a 110 proof, you wouldnt even know it. GREAT stuff, albeit pricey

    Bulldog: Nothing special, but solid.

    Bluecoat: Great nose, taste was nothing special. solid.

    Gvine: The most different of the "clear" gins. Herbal and floral. Makes a good martini, but different.

    Kensington XO: A sippers gin! Near impossible to find and very pricey.

  7. #17
    Bourbonian of the Year 2011
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    Re: Let's Talk About Gin

    Very interesting, the Boomsa Oude (I know it has been discussed here before) sounds like a Dutch genever gin, which would render it generally unsuitable for mixed drinks. It seems best slightly cool on its own.

    If you ever get to a SB gathering (e.g., Sampler in April), please let me know, I would bring a gin blended by myself which you might find interesting.

    Its profile has changed over the years and right now is inclined in a Beefeater way, with evident other influences.

    Although components of it go back 15 years, I recall how I made it.

    It started with a French artisanal gin from the French Flanders area. Although that area is known for a couple of surviving genever distilleries, this wasn't a genever, it was grain spirit (probably GNS) in which whole juniper berries had been added (they rested on the bottom of the bottle). Maybe other flavors were added too.

    I added some more juniper berries for some reason and the taste became very sharp, not sweet but intensely juniper.

    To that, I have since added Finsbury Gin, a brand marketed in Europe, Beefeater, Beefeater Orange, Plymouth Gin and probably one or two other dry gins (not genever), I think Gilbey's and one other well-known English dry gin.

    The most recent additions were the Beefeater and Beefeater Orange.

    It is a very full-tasting gin, very soft on the palate (something I try to achieve with all my blends or vattings). It makes an amazing Martini but I like to sip it neat sometimes. Beefeater can be quite intense and the other gins seem to soften it while still preserving its profile. Also, there is a slight orange undertone which fits perfectly into the dry gin universe of flavors.

    To the Beefeater Orange bottle, I have added about a pint of regular Beefeater because while the Orange version is very good, it is quite sweet, too much so (for me), so adding more of the base it is made from seemed a good idea. It reduced the cane sugar taste while keeping the pleasant orange notes. The vatting could probably stand further dilution in this sense.

    I won't just drink any combination that results from the additions mentioned. If the result is too sweet or too juniper or too something else I don't like, I'll add some more of one of the components that are still on hand to re-establish a correct balance and taste.

    Of all the gins in all the gin joints I've visited in my time, I still like my own gin the best, you might say.. (apologies to the late Humphrey Bogart).

    Gary
    Last edited by Gillman; 01-25-2008 at 09:27.

  8. #18
    Bourbonian of the Year 2011
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    Re: Let's Talk About Gin

    In terms of what Chuck has been saying about early connections between American rye whiskey and geneva gin (or other early European white spirits in which rye made a telling appearance), I can only add my full assent. One has to infer from the history and other indicators. E.g., wasn't there an early distillery founded on Manhattan? This would have been Dutch in orientation. It would have made a cereals-based spirit, surely using rye, which would have been consumed unaged or aged for a time in wood. Where aged in reused or new uncharred barrels, it would, if unflavored with juniper, have been very close I think to Potrero's 1800's-style rye whiskey, or maybe to Lot 40. These in turn are quite close (I find) to a number of modern genevers, e.g., Filliers genever of Belgium which is aged and eschews the purple berry.

    The common element is a decent amount of rye in the mashbill. We always come back to this, since it seems rye was little used in the U.K. and Ireland to distill from. It was used in a very, very small amount in pure pot still mashes in Eire until New Midleton was built, but we can set that aside too since the amounts were so small (1% or so of the total mash).

    The Dutch and Germanic incomers to America provide the key, I think, since rye was so familiar to them at home.

    Thus, I say again that the all-American bourbon whiskey which in most cases retains a proportion of rye, probably owes part of its lineage to these non-British and Irish immigrants.

    As the years go back one's memories (I haven't written any of this down except episodically on whiskey boards) lose some clarity on where all this came from but I know John Lipman expressed similar ideas years ago and may well have stimulated my own thoughts in the area, in fact I am pretty sure he did.
    Last edited by Gillman; 01-25-2008 at 09:56.

  9. #19
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    Re: Let's Talk About Gin

    I've had Bombay Sapphire, Tanqueray Ten, Hendricks, Plymouth, and Boodles among the higher end and enjoyed them all. I've had everything from Seagram's down to Wolfschmidt on the lower end and I agree that Seagram's is the best bang for the buck in that category. It just flat out tastes good.
    We set out as men of reason, armed with Navy Colts.

  10. #20
    Bourbonian of the Year 2002 and Guru
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    Re: Let's Talk About Gin

    I agree with Vange about the Plymouth Gin. It is well worth trying if you like gin and it's priced about the same as the standard Bombay or Tanqueray, about $20 here.

    Most of the new premium gins are still in the London Dry style, they're just messing around with the botanicals mix. Plymouth is a different style, primarily in being less dry, i.e., sweeter. Unlike Dutch Genever, the Plymouth works well in standard gin drinks.

 

 

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