I Need Help with T.W. Samuels Post Pro History.

[chefmel]

MarK, My wife and I were down in Bardstown for the KBF last year. (2007) While on a tour of Maker's Mark we were joined about half way through our tour, by none other than the widow of Sam Cecil. If I remember correctly, her name was Jean. Maybe you could get in touch with Maker's Mark, and they could get in touch with her or other members of Sam Cecil's family and maybe they could be of assistance to you. Hope this helps you out a little. Joe

Thanks Joe for the info!

[chefmel]

Thanks, Mark. That's great stuff.

Re-reading Sam's account in his book, it appears he left the company when Robert Block (that's the Cincinnati connection) sold it about 1943. He identifies the new owners as the Foster Trading Corporation of New York and that's about all he has to say about the new owners.

Mark (chefmel) hasn't given us any names, including his own, so I hope he can tie those pieces together for us. Does that name (Foster Trading) means anything to you?

It looks like 1943 is when Sam Cecil, Charlie DeSpain, and perhaps the Elijah Craig brand, all left Deatsville and made the trek to Heaven Hill. I suspect Sam's account of the post-1943 history is spotty because he wasn't there. Leslie Samuels, of course, was dead by then and Bill Sr. left in 1943 too. He was out of the business for ten years, then in 1953 bought what is now Maker's Mark.

One thing that is always left out of the Maker's Mark foundation myth is the fact that Bill Samuels Sr. was prohibitted from using the family name because they had sold it along with the distillery. Today, that too is owned by Heaven Hill.

I am particularly glad to get the information about Elijah Craig. I knew Heaven Hill didn't originate the brand, I even once saw who did, but I've never since been able to put my hands on that information. This doesn't necessarily prove Samuels started it either, they may have acquired it from someone, but this makes it seem likely that Heaven Hill acquired it from Samuel's in 1943, probably through the involvement of Charlie DeSpain, who was very important in Heaven Hill's history, although he was detested by many.

Hi Chuck!

Thanks for the added information! My full name is Mark Brooks, and one of my uncle's partner's was Stanhope Foster, so I'm assuming the name of the original partnership came from him. Sam Westerman was married to my Grandmother's sister way back when - married and divorced twice according to the family legend, so he wasn't my blood uncle. I believe the Elijah Craig label was still with my uncle in the mid 1950's as my first post metioned the the article (bluegrass & Belles?) that I received from the museum about 10 years ago. This listed the brands (at that time) as T.W. Samuels, Elijah Craig, and, I think, Jim Porter. I don't remember off hand where the info on the Old Jordan brand came from. After looking on line and talking to different people, the info starts to become cloudy. I should know better as I've done extensive research on the local brewing history in Frankenmuth, Mi. and I know how important it is to keep track of where each piece of information is coming from for future reference. Anyway, I've documented 4 brands bottled by the distillery and if anyone can find the listing of the 16 brands, I'd love to hear what else was bottled there!

Mark

[chefmel]

Is it possible T. W. Samuels had both of those brands in 1966?

It makes sense that Samuels, as a commodity producer, would shut down in the early 1970s as opposed to the 1950s. That's when the market tanked.

Chuck,

It's very possible that they had at least the Elijah Craig brand up until the time HH started marketing it in the mid 1970's which co-incides with the time my uncle sold the distillery.

Mark

[chefmel]

Mark (chefmel) hasn't given us any names, including his own, so I hope he can tie those pieces together for us. Does that name (Foster Trading) means anything to you? .

One other thing Chuck - Mr. Foster may have been from New York, but my uncle was from Detroit, and the gentleman I talked to from Deatsville said the 4 investors were all from Detroit. Maybe Foster had a company with a New York Address, or maybe they incorporated their company in New York, thus the NY connection. Ahh . . . more research for me when I have time!

Mark

[chefmel]

Chuck,
The book may list the brands but I would have to go back and look. I too, seem to remember the company that owned Elijah Craig before Heaven Hill but don't recall who it was. I have some reference books at home that might be where I saw that information. I will try to look it up sometime after New Year Day.

Mike Veach

Thanks Mike - Let us all know what you find out!

[chefmel]

Hey Everyone,

Thanks to all for the additional information provided! Keep it coming as you find it, and so will I. Chuck, I heard at the last Michigan get-together that I may have the pleasure of meeting you in the coming month. I look forward to meeting as many of you as possible. Happy New Year to all!!

Mark

[cowdery]

These things never fit together perfectly, but this is shaping up pretty well. Thanks, Mark, for adding so much to our understanding of this important distillery.

[Josh]

These things never fit together perfectly, but this is shaping up pretty well. Thanks, Mark, for adding so much to our understanding of this important distillery.

Ditto. You've done a bang-up job of tracking this stuff down, chef. It just serves as an example of how that relatively recent history can be just as hard to sort out as ancient history.

[chefmel]

Hi Everyone,

I'm planning on going back to Deatsville in April, so hopefully will have some updates then.

Mark

[fishnbowljoe]

Keep plugging away Mel, and keep us posted. Joe