Dickel - What's Diageo's Problem?

[sku]

I just did a blog post (link below) on Dickel 8 which is now, after a long drought, is in pretty good supply in LA shops. I really like the 8 though not as much as the 12, and both are about as good a whiskey as you can get for their respective prices.

My question (and frustration) is why does Diageo pretty much ignore this great distillery. Diageo is very aggressive about marketing its Scotch and Bulleit, but they seem to view Dickel as a complete afterthought. I would love to see something cask strength or some new more upmarket expressions.

Any thoughts?

http://recenteats.blogspot.com/2010/09/whiskey-wednesday-budget-booze-george.html

[OscarV]

I would love to see something cask strength or some new more upmarket expressions.

Any thoughts?

[ratcheer]

My thought is that Dickel is probably just a small drop in a large ocean for Diageo.

Tim

[Josh]

My question (and frustration) is why does Diageo pretty much ignore this great distillery. Diageo is very aggressive about marketing its Scotch and Bulleit, but they seem to view Dickel as a complete afterthought. I would love to see something cask strength or some new more upmarket expressions.

Any thoughts?

I too would like to see more offerings from Dickel but I wonder if the folks in Tullahoma like being ignored by Diageo. They get more leeway to do what they want to do without Brits breathing down their necks and micromanaging.

[cowdery]

Dickel kind of takes care of itself and sells where it sells. Investment in trying to sell more hasn't paid off. They've got their customers, who will buy it whether they advertise it or not, but they haven't found anything that will move the needle. Plus the warehouses are full so they can't increase production without building more warehouses. They've told me they are rising with the tide--when American whiskey sales increase overall theirs increase at about the same rate--so they are growing at a managed pace. Because their marketing costs are so low, the brand is small but profitable. There's also the thing of great big Diageo not giving much attention to something so small, especially since it is performing pretty well on the balance sheet. Bulleit, by contrast, is competing for share in a dynamic segment.

[SMOWK]

They've told me they are rising with the tide--when American whiskey sales increase overall theirs increase at about the same rate--so they are growing at a managed pace. Because their marketing costs are so low, the brand is small but profitable.

Marketing alcohol seems useless to me. I don't pay much attention to it. I would imagine most users of this forum don't either. We drink what we like. If it's good, we'll buy it. Rather than marketing, owners should put their money into making a better product at a cheaper price.

The age of the internet is upon us. Marketing just "happens", in forums like this, when a product is worthy. I don't think I've ever seen a Van Winkle ad.

Unfortunately, the "good bourbon" business is always 10-15 years behind.

[ILLfarmboy]

Marketing alcohol seems useless to me. I don't pay much attention to it.

I pay far more atention to the marketing of a product that I already buy, and would buy again, than to things I've never tried. That goes for all consumer goods.

Generally speaking, I have a rough outline of what fits my wants, then I go in search of it, in stores or on the Internet. Advertisements are back round noise.

[MJL]

I just love Dickel whiskey and have liked it since I started drinking. For whatever reason it just speaks to me and my tastes. That said I would dearly love to see some more diverse offerings from this facility. Barrel strength would be nice, special offerings and perhaps some experimental offerings would be a nice change and would certainly gin up some excitment for the brand.

[AVB]

PA used to stock Dickel on the shelves but then discontinued it and now three years later are bringing back #8. It's a start but I'd rather have #12.

[Martian]

I noticed Dickel Cascade Hollow won a Double Gold Medal at the 2010 San Francisco World Spirits competition.

[SMOWK]

I haven't had a bottle of Dickel in quite some time. After all this talk, I think it's time.

[CorvallisCracker]

I noticed Dickel Cascade Hollow won a Double Gold Medal at the 2010 San Francisco World Spirits competition.

:slappin:

Seriously, what is wrong with those people? :skep:

[callmeox]

:slappin:

Seriously, what is wrong with those people? :skep:

What was the category? Least offensive barrel dregs under 4 years old?

[callmeox]

Wow, I bet Dickel would love to bury these results...

Tennessee Whiskey

Double Gold Medal, George Dickel Cascade Hollow Tennessee Whiskey, USA [40%] Need Price,

Gold Medal, George Dickel No. 8 Tennessee Whiskey, USA [40%] $17.

Gold Medal, George Dickel No. 12 Tennessee Whiskey, USA [40%] $19.

Gold Medal, George Dickel Barrel Select Tennessee Whiskey, USA [40%] $19.

[SMOWK]

With enough hype, you can get a group of people to agree anything is good.

A buddy of mine always finds it funny to fill good bottles of bourbon with bottom shelf stuff and laugh at how good everyone thinks it is.

[CorvallisCracker]

A buddy of mine always finds it funny to fill good bottles of bourbon with bottom shelf stuff and laugh at how good everyone thinks it is.

Does he work at Jim Beam?

[SMOWK]

Does he work at Jim Beam?

:slappin: good question. he would like to think so.

[squire]

I would like to see a return of the 10 yr 86 proof.

[Jono]

Had my first Dickel tonight - a very nice whiskey.

[squire]

I keep passing this on the shelf thinking I will get a bottle next time. Maybe it's time.

[cigarnv]

I have always found the GD 8 and 12 very nice whiskey. Soft and easy to drink they always work well with a cigar. IMO a much better whiskey than JD....

[proof and age]

Dickel did not produce for quite a long time from what I have heard, which led to a shortage, which led to a stampede to get what was to be gotten and drove up the demand. Have tasted, not too bad for a whiskey that is not Straight.

[craigthom]

Dickel did not produce for quite a long time from what I have heard, which led to a shortage, which led to a stampede to get what was to be gotten and drove up the demand. Have tasted, not too bad for a whiskey that is not Straight.

The distillery was shut down from 1999 to 2003, which I wouldn't call "quite a long time", and I really don't think it drove up demand. It was almost ten years before they made the decision to stop shipping the No. 8, and that didn't last two long. And they had enough just to sell Cascade Hollow with two different labels.

(I say that stopped shipping No. 8 rather than ran out, because I think they could have kept bottling it, but not without hurting the No. 12 down the road).

[proof and age]

The distillery was shut down from 1999 to 2003, which I wouldn't call "quite a long time", and I really don't think it drove up demand. It was almost ten years before they made the decision to stop shipping the No. 8, and that didn't last two long. And they had enough just to sell Cascade Hollow with two different labels.

(I say that stopped shipping No. 8 rather than ran out, because I think they could have kept bottling it, but not without hurting the No. 12 down the road).

I will assume that you are correct on the shut down period, '99-'03, and argue that this is in fact "quite a long time". As production is wound down, less is made, and with aging in play, and the difficulties of resuming production after long lay offs, you are looking at 3-4 years after '03 until there would be any marketable product.

[cowdery]

Diageo has been shockingly bad at reading the U.S. market for U.S.-made whiskey. Just about the exact moment Diageo bets on one direction, the market goes the other way. So it was when they pulled the reigns in on Dickel. The ultimate problem there was they had some EPA stuff they had to do before they could reopen the plant, so they had to wait until they decided to put Dickel more or less back into full production before they could justify the expense of the EPA abatement. Then, of course, the market went boom and they were shown to have waited too long. It is correct to say they had to stop bottling No. 8 to protect the supply for the more profitable No. 12 and single barrel. They probably did okay -- a rising tide and all that -- but they probably missed out on some volume and, more importantly, share that they could have had. They're making the same mistake right now with Bulleit, in not biting the bullet and giving Bulleit a real distillery.