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Josh
Hey, Josh, it dawns on me that the first thing I said about this was trying to correct something. But my main thoughts about it is how great it is, and thanks for your work. It's super informative, and fun to look at, to boot.

No worries. Glad you enjoy it and if you notice anything else in need of correction please speak up!:grin:

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CaptainQ

Great work Josh! :thankyousign:

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cowdery

Great work, Josh.

I don't know if HH changed their rye-recipe bourbon mash bill when they moved to Bernheim, or if Gary got the old one wrong, but from Craig Beam pretty recently I got the following: Mash is 78% corn, 12% malt, 10% rye. Could have changed due to high prices for malt and rye. Sorry I didn't ask about the OF mashbill.

Also, 18% of the volume in the mash cooker is backset.

I know that the rye mash bill and wheat mash bill are both 51% rye/wheat respectively, so the mash bill is most likely 51% rye/wheat, 37% corn, 12% malt.

Regarding the yeast HH uses at Bernheim, when HH took over Bernheim was using, in dry form, what Craig Beam calls "Schenley yeast." They didn't like it so they tried what Red Star was offering as distiller's yeast. They didn't like that either, so they had Red Star work up a dry version of the Beam yeast they had been using in jug form at Bardstown. They've been using that since fall of 1999.

As for whatever happened to the yeast that was used at SW, I don't know. Ed Foote might know.

"Beams and Yeast" is the subject of the main story in the new issue of The Bourbon Country Reader, which should go into the mail within the next 24 hours. Subscription information is here.

"box in the garage" :(

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Gillman

Very good, Josh, indeed. Just some minor points/observations.

Looking at Tom Moore, is there any reason to think the VOB mashbill would not apply to all the lesser-known brands (e.g. Colonel Lee, Kentucky Tavern, Kentucky Gentleman except its blend iteration, etc.) except of course 1792 which has higher barley malt as you noted? I am assuming that nothing would have changed in this regard after the purchase by Sazerac Brands.

Also, in reference to Oscar's excellent work to which you referred (and I realize it's not meant to be complete), were each of the 10 bourbons not released serially as single barrel bourbons by a retailer in Kentucky, Party Source was it? This just from memory. I know it was announced that something like this would be done, was the program completed and does anyone have all ten?

Gary

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Special Reserve

Damn Josh, I thought as a newish dad you'd be busy with other duties. What an effort. Hope life is good.

Will

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Josh
Great work, Josh.

I don't know if HH changed their rye-recipe bourbon mash bill when they moved to Bernheim, or if Gary got the old one wrong, but from Craig Beam pretty recently I got the following: Mash is 78% corn, 12% malt, 10% rye. Could have changed due to high prices for malt and rye. Sorry I didn't ask about the OF mashbill.

Also, 18% of the volume in the mash cooker is backset.

I know that the rye mash bill and wheat mash bill are both 51% rye/wheat respectively, so the mash bill is most likely 51% rye/wheat, 37% corn, 12% malt.

Regarding the yeast HH uses at Bernheim, when HH took over Bernheim was using, in dry form, what Craig Beam calls "Schenley yeast." They didn't like it so they tried what Red Star was offering as distiller's yeast. They didn't like that either, so they had Red Star work up a dry version of the Beam yeast they had been using in jug form at Bardstown. They've been using that since fall of 1999.

As for whatever happened to the yeast that was used at SW, I don't know. Ed Foote might know.

"Beams and Yeast" is the subject of the main story in the new issue of The Bourbon Country Reader, which should go into the mail within the next 24 hours. Subscription information is here.

"box in the garage" :(

Thanks for the info! It will go into the next update. I'm trying to figure out a way to work yeast into the tree. Looking forward to the next BCR! Assuming I haven't let my subscription lapse...:bigeyes:

Sadly, most of my books are in boxes in the garage. This happened when the study (aka the spare bedroom) became the baby's room. I was sure I had Bourbon, Straight on one of the two surviving bookcases, but when I went to look for it, it wasn't there. The situation will be rectified shortly! At least it has a lot of bourbon to keep it company out there. :drinking:

Very good, Josh, indeed. Just some minor points/observations.

Looking at Tom Moore, is there any reason to think the VOB mashbill would not apply to all the lesser-known brands (e.g. Colonel Lee, Kentucky Tavern, Kentucky Gentleman except its blend iteration, etc.) except of course 1792 which has higher barley malt as you noted? I am assuming that nothing would have changed in this regard after the purchase by Sazerac Brands.

Also, in reference to Oscar's excellent work to which you referred (and I realize it's not meant to be complete), were each of the 10 bourbons not released serially as single barrel bourbons by a retailer in Kentucky, Party Source was it? This just from memory. I know it was announced that something like this would be done, was the program completed and does anyone have all ten?

Gary

I had assumed the same thing about Tom Moore, until John started this thread. John said

[Ken] Pierce also said:

Barton uses four different bourbon mash bills but he wouldn't reveal their content or which products they are used in.

He insisted that "none of their boubon products" will change under Sazerac's ownership. He did say that their production has increased significantly since the acquisition.

Which mashbills are used for which? It's a puzzle. Some have to be sharing a mashbill, but which ones?

To my knowledge, at the very least, Party Source and Binny's have carried all ten 4R recipes. I believe the series was completed in the fall of last year with the release of the idosyncratic F yeast recipes.

Damn Josh, I thought as a newish dad you'd be busy with other duties. What an effort. Hope life is good.

Will

Thanks Will and everybody else! Life is indeed good. As a newish dad I need to keep sane. I don't always do a good job of it, but stuff like this helps!

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Gillman

Thanks Josh, I did recall something about that discussion, but I assumed that the non-VOB, non-1792 mashbills were experimental including the wheated one mentioned. It would surprise me they would go the trouble of using 4 bourbon mashbills for their lines, since the brands other than VOB and 1792 are price brands, but perhaps they do, or at least, your question marks do make sense in that regard. Good work.

Gary

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Josh
Thanks Josh, I did recall something about that discussion, but I assumed that the non-VOB, non-1792 mashbills were experimental including the wheated one mentioned. It would surprise me they would go the trouble of using 4 bourbon mashbills for their lines, since the brands other than VOB and 1792 are price brands, but perhaps they do, or at least, your question marks do make sense in that regard. Good work.

Gary

Excellent point. As much as I love VOB, I'm not familiar enough with the other brands they sell to have an informed opinion on that question. Hopefully I can pick up some small bottles in Kentucky in April. Anyway, I'll take another look at the Tom Moore section and see if I can make it better reflect that amibiguity.

As for Tom Moore BiB, I have never had it or even seen it on the shelf. I WOULD LOVE TO GET MY HANDS ON SOME. *hint hint hint*

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Special Reserve
As a newish dad I need to keep sane. I don't always do a good job of it, but stuff like this helps!

I guess I forgot about that part over the past quarter century.

Good to hear that life is good.

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RickF

Is the Cabin Still mash bill the same as Old Fitz and Rebel Yell?

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squire

Originally, yes, but that was years ago when they were all made by Stizel-Weller. Cabin Still and Fitzgerald are now owned and made by Heaven Hill. Rebel Yell is a brand owned by Luxco using sourced whisky which may also be made by Heaven Hill

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squire

Hit the wrong button. If all three are made by Heaven Hill it stands to reason they share the same mash bill, but Luxco can use whisky from any source and still label it Rebel Yell.

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trumpstylz

So VOB and 1792 have a different mashbill?

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Josh
Hit the wrong button. If all three are made by Heaven Hill it stands to reason they share the same mash bill, but Luxco can use whisky from any source and still label it Rebel Yell.

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jcg9779

This is great, Josh...thanks!

Jack

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dbk

Josh, I just want to echo others' sentiments here: this is really, really great work! You have no idea how often I reference your "tree." Thanks!

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Josh

Thanks, I appreciate it. I hope to be able to update it again soon!

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bonneamie

Awesome work Josh. Thank you!! :toast:

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chefnash51

:coffeedrinker: Fantastic info , thanks Josh!

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cowdery

Hey, Josh. Here's something else to work on. Barrel char. I'll start. Wild Turkey uses #4.

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OscarV
Hey, Josh. Here's something else to work on. Barrel char. I'll start. Wild Turkey uses #4.

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nblair

Oscar, I had also read that Buffalo Trace used a #3 or 3.5 char. However, while watching the BT Oral History with Ronnie Eddins and Nelson Riddle, they mention that Buffalo Trace moved to #4 char. I assume that happened in the last few years.

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squire

Good work Josh, this sort of information is useful to all but especially new members, or those just visiting.

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Josh

Thanks again everybody. I'll try and update this week. Some physical problems are currently limiting my interwebs activities. Hopefully things will shape up later this week.

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cowdery
Thanks again everybody. I'll try and update this week. Some physical problems are currently limiting my interwebs activities. Hopefully things will shape up later this week.

Did your hands turn into lobster claws again?

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