Rum Forum

[sailor22]

Do you guys have some independent bottler recommendations? I saw a Samaroli Rum the other day but held off due to lack of info at the time.

Back to the El Dorado topic - this has probably already been posted but this blog entry has fascinating info about the stills as well:

http://www.amountainofcrushedice.com/?p=15890

It isn't easy to get but Cadenhead would be my recommendation.

[tanstaafl2]

It isn't easy to get but Cadenhead would be my recommendation.

If the Cadenhead 25yo Demerara you brought last weekend is any indication then they are certainly worth it if you can find it!

[ChainWhip]

If the Cadenhead 25yo Demerara you brought last weekend is any indication then they are certainly worth it if you can find it!

Does Demerara automagically mean Guyanese Rum?

[tanstaafl2]

Does Demerara automagically mean Guyanese Rum?

I don't know off hand if it has been made an official designation like the Cognac or Champagne regions in France but generally Demerara means Guyanese rum.

[sailor22]

It has been fun following Edward Hamilton's travails in attempting to get a private label Rum imported and bottled for sale here in the states. Looks like he is close to getting the juice ready and lately he has been dithering about proof, coloring and labeling. Some of us have been urging him to skip the coloring and barrel some at barrel strength. He just posted some really, really good news for Rum enthusiasts. Looks like he will be bottling 4 of the barrels at barrel strength with no coloring added. WooHoo! That's a single barrel, straight from the cask pot still rum available as a 5, 7, 8 or 9 year old.

This is a quote from his latest post;

None of the St Lucian Pot Still Rums will be colored.

One barrel of each age lot of St Lucian Rum will be bottled straight from the still for purists and the other barrels will diluted with filtered spring water to 93 proof.

5 year old

Barrel #534-06-08 will be bottled at cask strength ~ 59.2% ABV

Four more barrels will be bottled at 93 proof

7 year old

Barrel # 443-12-03 will be bottled at cask strength ~ 63.4% ABV

Five more barrels will be bottled at 93 proof

8 year old

Barrel # 423-10-05 will be bottled at cask strength ~ 63.2% ABV

One more barrel will be bottled at 93 proof

9 year old

Barrel # 85-05-03 will be bottled at cask strength ~ 61% ABV

Three more barrels will be bottled at 93 proof

One 5 year old barrel will be bottled at 90 proof and available only from K&L Wine Merchants in CA.

[squire]

I'm glad to see Ed's moving forward with this project.

[tanstaafl2]

Sounds tasty! Any word yet on where one might acquire such delicacies?

Is he doing only St. Lucia products or is he planning a tour of the islands with this private label? Is this all being reported from the ministry website? If so I guess I need to get connected over there. Haven't really followed it regularly in the past.

It has been fun following Edward Hamilton's travails in attempting to get a private label Rum imported and bottled for sale here in the states. Looks like he is close to getting the juice ready and lately he has been dithering about proof, coloring and labeling. Some of us have been urging him to skip the coloring and barrel some at barrel strength. He just posted some really, really good news for Rum enthusiasts. Looks like he will be bottling 4 of the barrels at barrel strength with no coloring added. WooHoo! That's a single barrel, straight from the cask pot still rum available as a 5, 7, 8 or 9 year old.

This is a quote from his latest post;

This is something to look forward to.

[bearmark]

A little El Dorado 12 year old after dinner tonight. This stuff is really growing on me. It's such a perfect balance between the oak and sweetness. Now I'm really curious about the 15 year.

The 8 Year is also great!

[BigBoldBully]

I recently picked up El Dorado 5 and 12 year. Opened the 5 first and have not been very impressed so far. Even compared to the 5yr Plantation Barbados rum I sometimes drink, it seems to lack complexity and balance. I do however still have high expectations for the 12yr and plan to pit it head to head with the Appleton 12.

[BigBoldBully]

Thinking of getting some El Dorado 15 as well while it is on "sale"--is $27 a good sale price, or should I be in no hurry?

[bearmark]

Thinking of getting some El Dorado 15 as well while it is on "sale"--is $27 a good sale price, or should I be in no hurry?

The cheapest I've seen ED15 is $35… $27 is great!

[bearmark]

I recently picked up El Dorado 5 and 12 year. Opened the 5 first and have not been very impressed so far. Even compared to the 5yr Plantation Barbados rum I sometimes drink, it seems to lack complexity and balance. I do however still have high expectations for the 12yr and plan to pit it head to head with the Appleton 12.

I haven't tried ED5 yet, but ED8 is a bargain at $19 here in Dallas. Appleton 12 is a very different style with more esters. It's like comparing rye forward bourbon to wheated bourbon.

[squire]

Bully, $27 is a very good price and even at $35 El Dorado 15 is an under priced World class distilled beverage.

[bearmark]

I thought I'd share my list of stock rums (i.e. those that I tend to keep on hand):

El Dorado 12/15 - $25/35 (Demerara)

RL Seale 10 - $22 (Barbados)

Appleton 12 - $25 (Jamaica)

Matusalem 15/18 - $25/30 (originally Cuba)

Barbancourt 5 Star - $22 (Haiti from cane juice)

For mixing, my favorite is Flor de Caña 4 Gold at $18 for 1.75L.

[tanstaafl2]

I thought I'd share my list of stock rums (i.e. those that I tend to keep on hand):

El Dorado 12/15 - $25/35 (Demerara)

RL Seale 10 - $22 (Barbados)

Appleton 12 - $25 (Jamaica)

Matusalem 15/18 - $25/30 (originally Cuba)

Barbancourt 5 Star - $22 (Haiti from cane juice)

For mixing, my favorite is Flor de Caña 4 Gold at $18 for 1.75L.

Looks like somebody has been reading Cap'n Jimbo's blog!

Although the Cap'n does have Mount Gay XO for his main Barbados representative the Seales is quite good as well. And I have been fortunate enough to have an extended dalliance with his first choice for the Cuban style, Havana Club 15 anos, in its native homeland. It is very nice but grossly overpriced in my opinion, at least in its current bottling, at $150 a bottle and not notably better to me than the Matusalem Gran Reserva Solera at probably less than a quarter of the price (I couldn't bring any home anyway but did bring an empty bottle as a souvenir!). I found the HC 7 anos to be perfectly exceptable at a far better QPR anyway.

Without any desire to pick at old wounds any discussion of rums for me should include other rhum agricoles in addition to Barbancourt. And to be fair the Cap'n does mention Clement Cuvee Homere, a traditiona lMartinique AOC rhum agricole, in the rhum agricole category. Barbancort is a fine rum and certainly to the best of my knowledge meets the definition for the rhum agricole style but somehow lacks the more classical grassy-ness of agricoles from Martinique and even Guadeloupe that is present to me even in more aged bottlings. I have to wonder if, like many rums, there is a little something extra added to Barbancourt that is generally not permitted to be added to agricoles from the more tightly controlled regions like the subset of rhum agricole from the Martinique AOC.

[bearmark]

Looks like somebody has been reading Cap'n Jimbo's blog!

Although the Cap'n does have Mount Gay XO for his main Barbados representative the Seales is quite good as well. And I have been fortunate enough to have an extended dalliance with his first choice for the Cuban style, Havana Club 15 anos, in its native homeland. It is very nice but grossly overpriced in my opinion, at least in its current bottling, at $150 a bottle and not notably better to me than the Matusalem Gran Reserva Solera at probably less than a quarter of the price (I couldn't bring any home anyway but did bring an empty bottle as a souvenir!). I found the HC 7 anos to be perfectly exceptable at a far better QPR anyway.

Without any desire to pick at old wounds any discussion of rums for me should include other rhum agricoles in addition to Barbancourt. And to be fair the Cap'n does mention Clement Cuvee Homere, a traditiona lMartinique AOC rhum agricole, in the rhum agricole category. Barbancort is a fine rum and certainly to the best of my knowledge meets the definition for the rhum agricole style but somehow lacks the more classical grassy-ness of agricoles from Martinique and even Guadeloupe that is present to me even in more aged bottlings. I have to wonder if, like many rums, there is a little something extra added to Barbancourt that is generally not permitted to be added to agricoles from the more tightly controlled regions like the subset of rhum agricole from the Martinique AOC.

[sailor22]

So often the "styles" of rum from different regions is a regional preference for what flavors are traditionally added to the juice. Either as additives late in the aging process or infused similar to the way gin is infused with flavors.

My enthusiasm for rum as sold in the US has diminished as my appreciation for Bourbon has increased. The things I have learned about flavors from Bourbon have informed my lack of enthusiasm for the sweet rums that are so common. Over the last year a couple of pours have helped clarify my growing dissatisfaction with rum.

Most of us have had enough years of experience with the flavor set that new (Bourbon) and used (scotch) barrels impart to whiskey to be very very suspicious of bold and unmistakeable flavors of raisin, prune, pineapple, coffee, big super over the top sweet notes, giant vanilla, cinnamon in so many of the rums on the shelf today.

Clement produces an agricole rum that is bottled and sold as a single barrel, at barrel strength, unfiltered, terrior specific and vintage dated.

Cadenhead bottles a 25 yr demerara rum that has this label on the back; "This rum has been bottled under the sole responsibility of William Cadenhead Ltd. With the exception of water added to bring the rum to drinking strength it has been bottled in it's natural state. It has not been treated to change it's color and is free from all additives. It has not been subjected to any chill filtering that might remove natural constituents and spoil it's flavor."

These two examples when sipped together show remarkable similarities for one being an agricole and one being a demerara. The similarities in flavor and mouth feel come from the common aging vehicle, a barrel. When compared to any Zacappa or El Dorado or Matuzalem or Zaya so many others the difference is striking. Nearly all the others have an obvious fruit flavor and sweetner added component in greater and lesser degrees to the point that they really seem more like a cocktail in a bottle rather than a quality molasses or cane based spirit that has been aged honestly.

Personally I found the subtle, lovely, woody, unfooked with flavors in the two examples listed above to be so satisfying (the way a great pour of whiskey is satisfying) that I don't have much time for the super sweet flavors added stuff any more. In comparison they seem like party drinks the way a soda is a party drink. Sweet, tasty and fun but not worth spending much time thinking about. This is the same reason the flavored bourbons and whiskeys don't get a lot of thread time on this forum. Yeah, there is some great rum being made, but very little of it is for sale in the US as they seem to be produced for the European palate which generally seems to prefer a dryer product with far fewer additives.

Note that the the international association of rum producers can't agree on a definition of what rum is. That might be a small hint that there is some significant flavor fudging going on with most production. No one want's to give up their flavorings in order to conform to a definition.

Edited June 14, 2013 by sailor22

[sailor22]

AWWWW Man..... It seems Mr. Hamilton isn't actually bottling single barrel selections at all. Rather, he had some barrels toped off before shipping and will be bottling them at barrel strength. The barrel strength is good but they are NOT single barrel selections, they are small batches (or vattings) that have been shipped in a single barrel. This shows just how far out of the whiskey mainstream that the rum world is that he is comfortable calling this juice a single barrel selection.

This could still be a great pour but calling it a single barrel is deceptive.

[tanstaafl2]

AWWWW Man..... It seems Mr. Hamilton isn't actually bottling single barrel selections at all. Rather, he had some barrels toped off before shipping and will be bottling them at barrel strength. The barrel strength is good but they are NOT single barrel selections, they are small batches (or vattings) that have been shipped in a single barrel. This shows just how far out of the whiskey mainstream that the rum world is that he is comfortable calling this juice a single barrel selection.

This could still be a great pour but calling it a single barrel is deceptive.

Edited June 17, 2013 by tanstaafl2

[michaelturtle1]

anybody have any information on this? Saw it in a store today for $99.00 looks to be mid 80s

[squire]

I've had it, I liked it, but at that price I could do much, much better.

[tanstaafl2]

I've had it, I liked it, but at that price I could do much, much better.

Is this the same bottle you mentioned in a post a while back or a different one?

I am inclined to agree with Squire but then I have been unerwhelmed by Bacardi for a long time. Of course this is likely an older bottling. I don't think it is made anymore or at least not regularly sold in the US anymore. Value may be more in the rarity than the contents. Still, it seems a bit pricey, even for Bacardi.

I would think there are better options out there for less money if you can find them in your area.

[michaelturtle1]

Same bottle, just remembered to take a picture.. I figured for the price it was not anything special but in case it was something someone had been hunting I just took the time to take a pic.

Edited July 18, 2013 by michaelturtle1

[onewman]

Out shopping today and found a store with 13 bottles of the Planter's Gold. Six of them followed me home.

[squire]

That's a nice, even number, good move.