Rum Forum

[tanstaafl2]

Came across a Plantation Grenada 1998 today. The only ones I usually see are the Barbados 5yr and the Jamaica. Decided to bring it home without knowing much about it, but figured I might not see it again and at worst I'll use it for cocktails.

If it is anything like the bottles I have then it is spectacular! So much so that I buy more when I see it!

From a while back.

First few bottles I saw said cask 9 of 10. But a more recent bottle said cask X of 15. Makes me wonder if they have released more or perhaps added five more barrels recently. I suppose I need to try one of the 10's versus the 15's.

I added 2 more from my trip out to the Left Coast over Thanksgiving.

Clement 6yo and 10yo from the Grand Reserve series in recognition of Clement's 125th Anniversary.

Should be interesting up against the Single Cask Clements which are nearly 10yo themselves.

[RVTsteve]

If it is anything like the bottles I have then it is spectacular! So much so that I buy more when I see it!...

That's good to hear! The ones in your picture are the Guadiloupe while the one I found is the Grenada. Mine has a more turquoise label and cap strip. Have you had the Grenada? I'll be sure to report back when I crack it open.

[tanstaafl2]

That's good to hear! The ones in your picture are the Guadiloupe while the one I found is the Grenada. Mine has a more turquoise label and cap strip. Have you had the Grenada? I'll be sure to report back when I crack it open.

Ah! That is what I get for posting late under the influence of jet lag and sleeping pills. Haven't tried the Grenada version so will be curious to your notes.

[tanstaafl2]

Went Renegade as I broke open the two Renegade rums. Both were a bit flat but I was prepared for that based on Steve's notes from his bottle of Renegade. Of the two the Grenada had the most character and particularly mouthfeel with a balance of dry rumminess and a bit of spice on the back of the palate. Neither gave me any sense that they had spent time on Islay.

I will have to go back to these periodically to see how they open up.

Oh, and we slipped a little of the Jeff 21 rye in there just for giggles! Pretty impressed with it. Dry and a bit oaky but not unpleasantly so with a decent amount of spice notes on the back of the palate. A pleasant surprise!

[jeffrey r]

Just bought my first rums. Looking forward to giving them a go, and easing my way in. Went with Ron Zacapa Solera 23 and Plantation 20th Anniversary for sipping, and Gosling Black Seal for mixing. Passed up the Zaya Gran Reserve Barbancourt 5 Star and some others. Have El Dorado 12 and 15 in my sights for a different store, and perhaps Diplomatico 12 Yr Reserva Exclusivo.

[WhiskyToWhiskey]

I'm not sure the source of this, but it was post on the facebook ministry of rum page. The Government in Finland tests the sugar levels in rums...which ones have a little something added.

[dreasoner]

Not so much Bourbon related but my in-laws went to the Dominican Republic and brought back a bottle of Ron Barcelo Imperial premium blend rum, 30 year. Anyone tried this? I'm not a rum guy but 30 year can't be bad.

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[tanstaafl2]

In addition to the single malts I picked up in Tennessee I picked up a couple of rums that haven't appeared locally.

Pink Pigeon is a molasses based rum from Mauritius (I think there is also an agricole style from Mauritius but this is not the same) that is flavored with Madagascar vanilla and other spices. Comes in an all black bottle making it impossible to see the rum inside. A bit disconcerting and at least one review suggested the vanilla is overpowering. But I thought I would try for myself!

http://www.pinkpigeonrum.com/

Papa's Pilar (the name of Hemingways boat) is a blend of rums from Barbados, Panama, Dominican Republic and somewhat surprisingly Florida that reportedly is aged in a 24 yo solera system ala Zacapa and along the way is finished in bourbon, port and sherry casks. Not terribly expensive but haven't tried it yet to see if it is worth the premium. Bottle is shaped like a WWII canteen so a bit gimmicky as well.

http://papaspilar.com/#/ourrums/duality

Edited February 6, 2014 by tanstaafl2

[tanstaafl2]

Also appears that Plantation Rum's 20th Anniversary rum (worth pointing out it isn't 20yo rum!) has gotten a complete make over from the former perfume style bottle. Looks more like the rest of the line. Already have a bottle so didn't need anymore at the moment.

[tanstaafl2]

Anybody have any experience or thoughts on Gosling's Family Reserve Old Rum? Appears to be a NAS rum which begs the question just how old it really is. But I have heard a few positive reviews from friends. The standard Gosling's is not that special to me except as a mixer for Dark n Stormy type fare as it is heavy on added molasses, much like Cruzan Blackstrap.

It is also a bit on the pricey side ($60ish) but not available locally to my knowledge and I may have a chance to pick up a bottle from a non local source.

Edited February 20, 2014 by tanstaafl2

[squire]

No I haven't but if it's moreso than Cruzan Blackstrap I'm not tempted.

[tanstaafl2]

No I haven't but if it's moreso than Cruzan Blackstrap I'm not tempted.

I find the Cruzan Blackstrp and the standard Gosling Black Seal to be comparable but the Family Reserve old rum is supposed to be a much different bottle.

Better be because the price is certainly much different!

[squire]

I see your point. For me the dark rums have their uses in cocktails but the flavor profiles are so close I have to concentrate in order to tell them apart.

[tanstaafl2]

That's a good link tanstaalt, the lady who runs that site is very knowledgeable and posts often on the Ministry of Rum website.

According to the Master Blender for El Dorado some of the rums used in their blends are aged in Sherry casks, particularly Pedro Ximenez, and the Sherry notes are most evident in the 12 year expression. Let me toss some Wray & Nephew in my coffee and I might remember more.

Could be. The website says it is bourbon casks. But they don't always give all the facts I suppose. A bit like bourbon distillers that way...

Digging back into this subject from a year ago as a result of the ineresting ongoing posts from David Driscoll on their trip to DDL in Guyana.

Much to my surprise, there is absolutely no sherry maturation happening at DDL. All of their rum is aged in refill Bourbon casks that have been stripped and re-coopered to expose more of the fresh oak underneath the char. The sweetness is simply due to rapid maturation and evaporation under the extremely humid conditions.

So who knows what the real truth is!

For rum fans I would think you might find this an interesting series to follow if you aren't already doing so.

[squire]

We think of the Caribbean as a place of beautiful beaches, palms swaying in the gentle ocean breeze, cold drinks and hot women.

We have to change our perspective though when it comes to aging rum because . . . there be mountains in those regions. We know from aging whisky the floor location is important. In the Caribbean the actual location of the warehouse is important because a barrel of rum aged at sea level can evaporate completely empty in ten years whereas a barrel aged up in the mountains 5000-6000 feet above sea level can gently age 10-12 years or more.

As for the barrels we know that Sherry makers use American as well as European oak and we know ex-Bourbon barrels can be 'treated' with sherry before being filled with rum. So if the head distiller or warehouse manager says they are using 'sherry barrels' to age their rum I'll take their word for it.

[tanstaafl2]

We think of the Caribbean as a place of beautiful beaches, palms swaying in the gentle ocean breeze, cold drinks and hot women.

We have to change our perspective though when it comes to aging rum because . . . there be mountains in those regions. We know from aging whisky the floor location is important. In the Caribbean the actual location of the warehouse is important because a barrel of rum aged at sea level can evaporate completely empty in ten years whereas a barrel aged up in the mountains 5000-6000 feet above sea level can gently age 10-12 years or more.

As for the barrels we know that Sherry makers use American as well as European oak and we know ex-Bourbon barrels can be 'treated' with sherry before being filled with rum. So if the head distiller or warehouse manager says they are using 'sherry barrels' to age their rum I'll take their word for it.

And yet a person who appears to at least have more than a passing knowledge of spirits, particularly finishing spirits from his time spent selecting whisky in Scotland and elsewhere, and presumably knows enough to be very specific about whether a cask is an American made sherry cask or a European sherry cask and include things like barrels treated with sherry is on site and speaking directly with the master distiller, Shaun Caleb, when he notes, rather emphatically, that they don't use sherry cask isn't sufficient to convince you that perhaps they don't? Curious indeed.

So just to be cantankerous I will conclude that it seems rather unlikely that they use sherry casks of any sort to finish their rum!

Not that it matters a whit. I am going to drink it either way! :grin:

[squire]

Bruce I was posting about the effects of elevation and aging practices in the region as reported by those in charge both in written and video interviews. I have no reason to doubt or discount David D's visit to DDL but that speaks only to practices at that distillery and not to the region as a whole. I do wonder how they get that level of sweetness in El Dorado 12 with oak alone, come to think of it I find all the El Dorados under the age of 15 to be fairly sweet.

Looking at my older post quoted above I believe I meant Ron Zacapa using PX barrels instead of El Dorado. Must have been the rum posting.

[tanstaafl2]

Bruce I was posting about the effects of elevation and aging practices in the region as reported by those in charge both in written and video interviews. I have no reason to doubt or discount David D's visit to DDL but that speaks only to practices at that distillery and not to the region as a whole. I do wonder how they get that level of sweetness in El Dorado 12 with oak alone, come to think of it I find all the El Dorados under the age of 15 to be fairly sweet.

Looking at my older post quoted above I believe I meant Ron Zacapa using PX barrels instead of El Dorado. Must have been the rum posting.

OK. In Guyana it is worth noting that DDL/El Dorado is pretty much the only game in town (or country in this case!). I don't know the geography there well but I suspect it is mostly lowland coastal countryside until you get well into the interior which is fairly inaccesable anyway except by river. Of course even a few hundred meters of elevation may help in the aging process. Still, its gotta be tough to age rum for 10 or 20 years there!

With rum who knows what they are adding to make it taste the way it does. Outside of the French Islands there really isn't much in the way of rules or oversight. I would like to think those ancient stills do some magic that other rum producers can't duplicate and that ED isn't overly doctored but it probably is to some degree.

Zacapa may well be using PX barrels to make it taste sweeter. That and lots of extra sugar! Which is not to say I don't mind having a glass or two now and again...

[squire]

Yes, they have lotsa sugary liquid down there, enough to distill it in fact, but we expect rum to taste sweet don't we. What I dislike is the lack of regulation to the point that a 'solera system' or modified version thereof (tossing a cup full of old rum in a barrel of young) allows the use of the older age statement on the label.

We have a local store owner who put up a large sign announcing 25 year old Zacapa when he knows it's a mix but he's a scoundrel anyway.

[dSculptor]

So I just bought a bottle of the 23 Ron Zacapa "solera" (at the Binny's get together,had a pour of it at the bar 'cause I was early, liked it enough to buy me one) never knew what that meant until now,and looking into the definition.That process seems labor intensive and means keeping good records. Does it mean that the last barrel would have been aging 23yrs.How many barrels are usually used in the process? Seemed a bit confusing on the explantion,but I didn't study it to much,all I know is it tastes damn good! Wonder if there's bourbon out there done in the same way?

[squire]

Don there's a lot of discussion about that over on Ed Hamilton's site Ministry of Rum.

Not exactly a solera but vatting different age barrels of Bourbon to create a specific profile is a long time honored practice. A good example is Rare Breed which is a mix of 6-8-12 year old barrels. Same for Evan Williams Black Label though it's not mentioned on the label.

[tanstaafl2]

So I just bought a bottle of the 23 Ron Zacapa "solera" (at the Binny's get together,had a pour of it at the bar 'cause I was early, liked it enough to buy me one) never knew what that meant until now,and looking into the definition.That process seems labor intensive and means keeping good records. Does it mean that the last barrel would have been aging 23yrs.How many barrels are usually used in the process? Seemed a bit confusing on the explantion,but I didn't study it to much,all I know is it tastes damn good! Wonder if there's bourbon out there done in the same way?

The new Hillrock bourbon calls itself a solera system but it isn't quite the same as the solera system used with Spanish sherry, which is what I typically associate it with. Basically it appears Hillrock takes young bourbon they make an age in small barrels and then combines that with sourced bourbon. Then the blend is further aged in 20 yo Oloroso sherry casks. Just how fresh those casks are, how frequently they are reused and how long the bourbon stays in there is probably anybodys guess.

This site talks about the sherry solera system. Whether Zacapa does it similar to this is not known to me but my understanding is that it is also not a true solera system in the sherry style. This site offers their take but I have no idea how accurate it is.

But it is a fair guess to assume only a small portion of the rum in the bottle was distilled 23 years ago.

[Conquistador]

The new Hillrock bourbon calls itself a solera system but it isn't quite the same as the solera system used with Spanish sherry, which is what I typically associate it with. Basically it appears Hillrock takes young bourbon they make an age in small barrels and then combines that with sourced bourbon. Then the blend is further aged in 20 yo Oloroso sherry casks. Just how fresh those casks are, how frequently they are reused and how long the bourbon stays in there is probably anybodys guess.

This site talks about the sherry solera system. Whether Zacapa does it similar to this is not known to me but my understanding is that it is also not a true solera system in the sherry style. This site offers their take but I have no idea how accurate it is.

But it is a fair guess to assume only a small portion of the rum in the bottle was distilled 23 years ago.

Ron Matusalem, from what I gather on their website (http://www.matusalem.com/en/faqs.html), uses a rum solera that is based on the sherry solera system. How truthful their website is, is of course up to debate. However, they do have a pretty good reputation in the rum world, and their solera rums are some of my favorites. Matusalem labels their bottles of solera rum with the "average" age of the rum in the bottle, and so you theoretically have much older rum in the blend than is advertised. This just seems to be a more truthful and honest approach than most of the other rum producers who market solera-aged rums. Most of the other rum producers slap the age on the bottle that represents the oldest rum in the solera blend, suggesting that the entire bottle contains rum at that age.

[squire]

Yes they do and yes, it's deceptive, intentionally so and something to think about when considering a purchase.

[dSculptor]

When did all this deception with everything come about,I guess I just don't remember it as much back in the day,I know it was there but not as prevalent, nowadays you just can't believe anything out there.